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Too Much for a rangefinder

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That's it now your really making hard for me to resist and send my kids to college. I read this article about the US dollar (see link below), so now might be the best time to go for it. Thanks

 

Travel | How long will the dollar stay strong? | Seattle Times Newspaper

 

The currency fluctuations we have seen the last year, in particular, has created enormous gains/loss oportunities. I bought my 1Ds III in Singapore in April, but would have saved a sum in NOK (Norwegian Kroners) equaling $ 1,000 by waiting three months. My sister's daughter & husband bought a flat in NY. From signing the contract to actually paying the money, they saved a sum equaling $ 20,000 (in NOK). Then the dollar set to rise again. And other currencies fall. With the recent fall of the NOK - a few weeks ago the strongest currency in Europe, compared to Euro equals $ 788 on the price of the new Leica Summilux 21 mm 1,4 at € 4.150.

 

Americans! Buy now! (From European dealers!)

 

As for the future of the relation between the dollar and the euro: It is damned difficult to predict what is going to happen in the currency market. Simply impossible. The 'predictions' by the Canadian National Bank are worthless. It seemed to me that the 'holders of large sums of dollars' (Europe, the Middle East, and China) suddenly understood what a low dollar meant to them. Then they saw it fit to cooperate to keep the dollar up. To predict a certain future value between the US $ and the € is impossible. The 'future' value of the dollar is what you see expressed in today's prices.

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M 8.2 as well as upgrades to the M8 are to expensive for what they are. If one wants to use the fantastic M-lenses and not go back to film days, the M8 is the only game in town (pls don´t mention the discontinued RD1). It looks as if Leica was either incapable of tackling its manufacturing costs or simply enjoyed its monopoly position. In either case, criticism from Leicaholics is unavoidable.

 

I agree, I consider the upgrades too expensive and probably won't take advantage of them. But I also understand that Leica sets their prices and my opinion of how much it SHOULD cost really doesn't factor in. Yes, M8 is the only digital RF around these days, and I'll only mention the RD-1 to say that that too was very expensive when it was available.

 

Your amateur psycho-analysis is to simplistic, I´m afraid. I was one on the earlier adopters to the M8 (Jan 07) and enjoyed it immensly since. And whilst affordability is not an issue, I wont "upgrade" to a slower shutter speed for a ton of money. Pricing for Leica products, at least some, starts to look absurd. Or why should e.g. a D-Lux4 sell at almost double the price of its identical sibling Pana LX3(yes, I´m familiar with the insignificant differences).

 

Sure, sure. This isn't to say that anyone that doesn't have an M8 or won't pay for every single upgrade/accessory can't afford it. That wasn't what I was suggesting at all. It was more the idea of signing up at a forum specifically for the M8, to complain about how it's not worth the money (remember, not just his opinion, but "Period." not worth the money). That type of behavior seems boorish.

 

As for the D-Lux4 at nearly double... I can't defend it. When it was time for a P&S, I myself bought the Pana version versus the Leica version. But you didn't see me starting a thread about it. I looked at the cost of the two and made my own mind up.

 

What I DON'T do is go up to anyone I see shooting with the Leica version and suggest they overpaid. What is it of my business if they decide that industrial design and brand image are worth the extra money to them?

 

To some degree, I think they're correct.

 

If I bought my wife the Leica version instead of the Pana version, same camera for all intents and purposes, she'd care more about the Leica. The Pana is a throw-away, good for a couple years and then look for something better on the horizon. The Leica... well she would have swooned over it, never let it leave her sight, felt special every time she took a shot with it. Is that worth a couple hundred bucks? Possibly.

 

That is not always a true analysis of the situation. Some who can easily afford it wont buy because they dont think it is worth the money.

 

Jeff, I didn't mean to suggest that this was true for every situation. It was just my response to the OP's particular behavior.

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Here is an email from the leica shop I received a few days ago for us US buyers. I can't justify taking advantage of it because I would have to sell Leica glass. It's just not worth it for me even with this advantage, BUT perhaps others might consider it worth it. I will just have to settle for an upgrade.

 

Dear John,

according to todays exchange rate it is USD 5400 including shipping (by UPS) and insurance

 

--

Best regards / Mit freundlichen Grüßen

 

Peter Coeln

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Advertisement (gone after registration)

Here is an email from the leica shop I received a few days ago for us US buyers. I can't justify taking advantage of it because I would have to sell Leica glass. It's just not worth it for me even with this advantage, BUT perhaps others might consider it worth it. I will just have to settle for an upgrade.

 

Dear John,

according to todays exchange rate it is USD 5400 including shipping (by UPS) and insurance

--

Best regards / Mit freundlichen Grüßen

Peter Coeln

 

You can do a quick arbitrage here at the moment - Sell your M8 in Europe and buy the M8.2 in the US.

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Guest bwcolor

I'm the OP (assume that means Original Poster). I said I thought the M8.2 is too expensive. Let me reaffirm that. I THINK THE M8.2 IS TOO EXPENSIVE. I hope this continues to offend the folks who take strong exception.

 

And if they thought for a moment before firing off their personal invective responses, pehaps they might consider that in addtion to not wanting to pay over $6,000 for a lens-less camera, I might also think that Leica will not be able to sell this camera at that price, further that I might think the exchange rate will be more favorable, and that I might think that the camera is obsolete already, a transitional model designed to keep Leica in the digital game while they scramble up a really effective digital M or similar.

 

So fume and fuss away, lads.

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I'm the OP (assume that means Original Poster). I said I thought the M8.2 is too expensive. Let me reaffirm that. I THINK THE M8.2 IS TOO EXPENSIVE. I hope this continues to offend the folks who take strong exception.

 

And if they thought for a moment before firing off their personal invective responses, pehaps they might consider that in addtion to not wanting to pay over $6,000 for a lens-less camera, I might also think that Leica will not be able to sell this camera at that price, further that I might think the exchange rate will be more favorable, and that I might think that the camera is obsolete already, a transitional model designed to keep Leica in the digital game while they scramble up a really effective digital M or similar.

 

So fume and fuss away, lads.

 

How interesting. Personally, I try to think through a 6000$ order BEFORE I order. And if I, for a variety of reasons, decide NOT to order, I assume it is of limited interest to the world.

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I said I thought the M8.2 is too expensive. Let me reaffirm that. I THINK THE M8.2 IS TOO EXPENSIVE.

 

SNIP

 

So fume and fuss away, lads.

Your original post said that it was too much money. So it appears you cannot see that there is a distinction between 'too much money' and 'too expensive'.

 

Nevertheless I understand your point to some extent. When I first looked at a M2 I did not comprehend at all what the fuss was about (not even a electronic light meter, you must be kidding). I guess similar sentiments can hold for an M8 - if you think it is too expensive fine. It is your loss not mine.

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The solution for Dollars and other currency going up or down, without being adjusted every month or so by manufacturer is simply to boy in another currency.

 

If you buy as a tourist in Europe, you even get the VAT back.

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I'm the OP (assume that means Original Poster). I said I thought the M8.2 is too expensive. Let me reaffirm that. I THINK THE M8.2 IS TOO EXPENSIVE. I hope this continues to offend the folks who take strong exception.

 

And if they thought for a moment before firing off their personal invective responses, pehaps they might consider that in addtion to not wanting to pay over $6,000 for a lens-less camera, I might also think that Leica will not be able to sell this camera at that price, further that I might think the exchange rate will be more favorable, and that I might think that the camera is obsolete already, a transitional model designed to keep Leica in the digital game while they scramble up a really effective digital M or similar.

 

So fume and fuss away, lads.

Time for a reality check:

 

The M8.2 costs about the same as:

1. A decent watch

2. A nice guitar

3. A good amateur sports bicycle

4. A one week skiing holiday for a family of four.

5. One year's worth of Iraq war per USA citizen.

 

Not particularly expensive imo....

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I'm afraid that I am now way past that sentiment.

 

Jeff

 

With the new Summilux 21 mm 1,4 at € 4.150 my 'sentiment' is tested too. That's a hefty price!

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What's interesting though is that Leica prices keep on ratcheting upwards, with apparently none of the downward pressure resulting from technological and productivity improvements you see from other manufacturers.

 

I only have to look back over past price lists to see how the cost of lenses has been going up at rather more than the rate of inflation. Here in the UK, we have the little local difficult of the GBP in free-fall which makes the cost of the big three new lenses seem rather high compared to, say, to cost of the WATE 21 months ago (never mind the 30% discount at the time). To be specific: the new Summiluxes cost £3995 each, I paid around £1300 for the WATE/Finder package. I paid £1500 for a new Noctilux f1, the f0.95 is more than 4 times the price.

 

Hopefully, the investments they are making in manufacturing will begin to trim the price rises. Otherwise, I fear the cost of an M9 may be prohibitive.

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The Canon G10 costs 1/10th as much as the Leica M8 body alone... I have bought one last week and I'm seriously considering if I will take my M8s to Costa Rica next week... I think the G10 and my old 5D (smaller than 1Ds MKIII) together with three L lenses (16-35mm, 24-70mm and 70-200mm) can cover perfectly all my needs during the month I will spend in Costa Rica.

 

I realize that my M8s are becoming toys... I cannot really relay on them

 

I just returned from Costa Rica, I used my G9 all the time, it rained too much to risk my M8!! Just use your new G10, I am also thinking of getting that camera.

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As long as Leica keeps focused on the Gucci, Prada, Louis Vitton factor with hammer finish paint jobs and fancy leather skins and custom engraving the prices will stay high and the practicality will stay low. Do you really think that someone that is using their camera to take pictures bothers with such nonsense? It is one thing to take care of your equipment to lengthen its useful life and reduce down time for repairs due to abuse and quite another to worry about such things as coverings and fancy paint jobs.

 

Make the M a more reliable camera, incorporate advancements in technology that lead to better images more consistently (catch and fix my errors if possible), and drive the cost down to make it more affordable.

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Err - what hammerpaint and fancy leather does Leica provide, John? Afaik the M8 has a choice of black or silver and the only other covering provided is a plastic Vulcanite lookalike for better grip. It seems you are some years behind in time.

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I just returned from Costa Rica, I used my G9 all the time, it rained too much to risk my M8!! Just use your new G10, I am also thinking of getting that camera.

 

Jim,

 

Thank you for the advice. I think I'll follow it even if I leave Paris next week and the weather should be better. I bought a G9 last April for a trip to the Philippines (apparently you should not walk a expensive camera in Manila...) and I was quite happy with the quality. I used it together with a GRD II (for the 28mm) in "hot" places. I also took with me a M8 to use it in "safe" places. I'm very happy with the results.

 

I bought the G10to replace the G9/GRD II combination and image quality has been improved in the latest model.

 

I said my M8s are becoming toys... well, for instance, when, you need to take in account the climate to use (or not) a camera if you don't want to miss/ruin your photos, I cannot really consider it as a professional camera.

 

ArtZ

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While Leica didn't do all of this, only the fancy engraving, they probably would have if he had asked for it. http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/68690-hammertone-m8.html Not too long ago i would say.

 

No they would not. They firmly refused me when I wanted to have one of my cameras painted a decent black, and they refuse to put on third-party leather.

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