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chris_tribble

Learning to love 1250

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I find myself using 1250 more and more. Without any objective testing to back it up, I am finding 1250 better with firmware 2.0 than prior ones. Here are 2 recent examples. best...Peter

 

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1250 is getting better by the update!

 

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john coltrane's son ravi at the jazz showcase here in chi.

 

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a cabby in 2500...

 

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enjoy...

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J_lir - great stuff. Use it in the right place and the M8 works fine with high ISO - and for me Auto ISO continues to be a way to go. I did a shoot for Teatr Polski in Warsaw at the weekend and I was finding that with stage lighting the camera was making really good choices which I would never have been quick enough to take if I'd been setting ISO manually. In the kind of work I do, Auto ISO + discreet mode shutter (or the quieter shutter on the M8u) are the two innovations that have made the M8 my preferred tool for this kind of documentary work (though I also had the 5D + 85 1.2 + 70-200 for other shots... horses for courses...)

 

The examples below are successively 160, 320, 640 and 1250. I'm a happy camper...

 

No prizes for guessing the theme of the play (Pastoralka - based on a traditional account of the Christmas story - now showing in Warsaw and worth the visit if you're in town...)

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chris,

 

nice work on your behalf as well.

im receiving my m8.U tomorrow, and i have to part ways with the loaner m8.2 i have been using. i'll miss discreet mode certainly, but I am happy to say goodbye to the S mode.

 

i'm looking out for a 135mm right now and a 90 APO then the arsenal should be complete.

 

check out some more work @ Jesse Lirola

 

cheers

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The M8's bad reputation for noise is founded by the 2500 performance soley. The recent DXO marks shows this clearly

 

The different camera's do not come very much apart when it comes the SNR when it comes to sensor capabillities. Note that the RAW converter you use has impact. There the M8 has advantage from the adobe DNG format as we all commonly use adobe product to process our pics

 

See the two pics I added, one for Nikon, one for Canon common camera's. Biggest suprise is that the famous 5D does not really perform so much better on noise then the M8 And that the M8 is compared to D300 and 50D (which are almost equal) is a good performer, except for 2500iso. And the D3 is in a league of its own, clearly better than all, including 5D.

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Fully agree on 1250 - and really, with good lenses, I have never really felt an overwhelming need to go for 2500. The other thing in favour of the M8 is that AWB gives a MUCH better starting point if you're working in mixed artificial light than the 5D. Out of a one day theatre shoot last weekend, using the M8 and 5D side-by-side, I got as many keepers from the M8 and had to do much less work in post to get skin tones looking right.

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Don't want to rain on your parade, but I'm trying to work out what the advantage is from your shot. Great, it's 6400, but the focus seems off (did you want the end of the moggie's nose to be the only sharp feature?) and noise in this JPEG rendering of the OOF areas doesn't look that wonderful - and why would you need 6400 for this particular shot?

 

Fine, I have great respect for my 5D and I'll maybe get a 5D2 when they're available in reasonable numbers as I need good DSLR set up, but the two really important things in making a picture are the 1/ photographer and 2/ the glass. Sure the box matters, but it's only a box...

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As rd-1 owner, I say Leica iso 1600 looks pretty good. I prefer CCD all way over Cmos.

 

That canon shot looks not good from technical point. At other word, P L a S T I C.

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I did not want to be that blunt, but yes, it has that processed Canon look. Still, it is quite amazing what the electronics manage to achieve at this ISO rating.

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Chris,

 

I think the M8 does pretty good at 1250, and much more so with the newer fw and improved awb (which works better than the awb in my Nikon). But the D3 just cleans up when using under really low light - really impresses me every time. Of course it's harder to focus under low light than the M8 so one has to be really careful. As far as the Canon goes, I've never really liked the Canon look so will leave it at that.

 

First is M8, iso 1250, 28 cron, f/2, 1/60th or so.

 

Second, Nikon D3, iso 3200, Zeiss 28mm f/2 wide open, 1/90th.

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The Nikon does very well, but I do think the skin on the hands shows noise reduction effects, being ironed too smooth. Still, ISO 3200, there is not much out there that can touch this, and just imagine 3200 on colour film...

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Maybe another way of saying it is to see cameras like the 5D in perspective. From the same shoot as the Leica images above, a couple of 5D shots - using the 85L 1.2 and 70-200 L 2.8. I love these lenses - and I'd be stupid trying to say that Leica M can best them. The 75 apo is a great lens, but in my hands, I still get more consistent results with the 85 1.2 - and I don't think we'll ever see a long zoom on an M body!

 

re the images, there's nothing plastic about what you can get from a Canon sensor if you're using the right glass IMHO - it's the old horses for courses thing...

 

re ultra high ISO, for so much work what's the VALUE of being able to shoot at ultra high speeds? Think of the wonderful images that people have made with fast lenses and 400 ISO film ... that's a large part of the point of our investment in Leica glass and bodies we can hand hold at 1/8th of a second!

 

Anyway ...

 

First shot with the 84 1.2

Second with 70-200 (at 165mm)

Both shots rated 800 ISO (my preferred ISO for stage work)

 

Best...

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Charles - I agree - but there are so many times when I'll have an M8 and a 35/2 with me when I wouldn't even have dreamed of lugging a DSLR. Nikon and Canon make great cameras and superlative lenses, and it's wonderful what's happening with low-light sensitivity and low noise,

 

It then boils down to getting the shot. I'm doing a friend's wedding in January and although I'll probably take a couple of bags of stuff, the likelihood is that I'll mostly use the 5D + 85/1.2 + 16-35/2.8 AND an M8.2 + 28/2 and 50/1.4 - and the client will not be able to tell the difference between prints from the two camera systems (and in mixed light it'll take less work for me to get the M8 files looking right!)

 

Nice shots by the way...

 

Best

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Charles - I agree - but there are so many times when I'll have an M8 and a 35/2 with me when I wouldn't even have dreamed of lugging a DSLR. Nikon and Canon make great cameras and superlative lenses, and it's wonderful what's happening with low-light sensitivity and low noise,

 

It then boils down to getting the shot. I'm doing a friend's wedding in January and although I'll probably take a couple of bags of stuff, the likelihood is that I'll mostly use the 5D + 85/1.2 + 16-35/2.8 AND an M8.2 + 28/2 and 50/1.4 - and the client will not be able to tell the difference between prints from the two camera systems (and in mixed light it'll take less work for me to get the M8 files looking right!)

 

Nice shots by the way...

 

Best

 

Exactly. Looking forward to the day when I can eschew the Nikon altogether. But for now it does amazing things in next to nothing light and has saved my ass on numerous occasions. Yeah, and ultimately most clients could care less about miniscule differences in corner sharpness, yadda, yadda - they just want a clear picture that captures the moment no matter what gear you use.

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chris_t, no need for that much defence

Just be glad that one can combine RF and DSLR instead.

 

When imported_ posted Dxo pics, I was surprised that M8 was not lagging much behind 5D unitll iso1600 when I thought that was much worse for CCD sensor. I take the tests lightly

 

If we look at facts, only RF cameras are equpped only with CCD. So I was curious about other type of sensors.

 

I think it needs very sensitive eyes to see differences. But pictures generated by a lot of processing, look a bit streched until you are very careful. At f5.6, low iso it might eliminate differences more but still.....there is something with colors. It might depends on lenses as you say.

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Looking through all these shots, two in particular 'stand-out'.

 

1. The cab driver shot at 2500 is amazing, you only have to look at the headrest to see how clear and free from noise this shot is. I can't reproduce something that good on my M8 at 2500, so I must be doing something wrong - and I always shoot in RAW. But, kudos, excellent shot and when you think about it - probably unatainable with a 'user-hostile' DSLR vs the friendlier format a DRF.

 

2. Kid holding M8 shot with the D3 at 3200, that is an amazing ambient shot. The quality of the light and the lack of apparent noise is amazing.

 

The 5DMkII shot has the virtue that it is an example at 6400 but it is basically a poor picture and personally I'd need to see a lot more examples before forming any kind of opinion. Chris shows that with the right technique it is difficult not too see something you like with a Canon.

 

LouisB

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I agree with Big Louis on the cabby image -- it's a glorious shot all the way around. But as a collection of photos, if I were choosing my favorite, I'd point to Chris's image from the Warsaw stage with the woman holding the candle in the foreground. Just a great shot, Chris. JB

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