usefeet Posted October 20, 2008 Share #21 Posted October 20, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) Now for the questions: 1) Do new M7's come with the optical DX? 2) How reliable are the new ones? Hi Pat, 1) Mine has the DX coding. I bought the M7 about 6/7 years ago and have had it upgraded to the optical version (free) from Solms (way back). 2) It is reliable. I have used both the MP and M7 over the years, and default to taking out the M7 most times because the AE is just so good in changing light conditions. My preference is for people shots (candid) and the light changes. Obviously, there are are times when you need to use selective exposure, just like any camera, and have to use manual settings. Cheers Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 20, 2008 Posted October 20, 2008 Hi usefeet, Take a look here Thinking of an M7 -- two questions. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
mongrelnomad Posted October 20, 2008 Share #22 Posted October 20, 2008 In answer to your questions: a. I have one of the earliest M7s - I had the optical DX reader installed at Solms together with the flare-resistant MP finder when... b. The shutter jammed about a year ago. Needed a replacement and four months. Since then, it's been completely reliable. HOWEVER, if I were in your position, I would not buy another M7. As well as my M7 (and M8), I also have an MP and an MP-3. If I were to buy any one camera now, it would without doubt be another MP. Why? 1. The MP is noticeably better built than the M7. 2. The AE, whilst (very) occasionally convenient is easily confused. It is still a centre-weighted meter, not a spot, and as such using the arrows and compensating is easier than the rotational EV+- on the M7. 3. Personal preference, but I find the shutter-speed dial the wrong way round on the M7 4. I think the MP looks better 3+4 aren't really a big deal, but for me, 1+2 make the decision easy. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted October 20, 2008 Share #23 Posted October 20, 2008 It is still a centre-weighted meter, not a spot It isn't centre weighted. It's more like a fat spot. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgray Posted October 20, 2008 Share #24 Posted October 20, 2008 I don't know how you guys meter, but I meter the same way I do with my Canon 1V. I hardly ever use exposure compensation. I find something that is close to middle gray and set my exposure, using the spot meter. I then just shoot the camera in manual. In situations with changing light, I find middle gray and lock the exposure for each shot. For quick off the hip type shots, I set the Canon to either center weighted or evaluative metering. The M7 gives a little less flexibility since it only provides one metering pattern, but that pattern is an ideal compromise. I use the M7 in manual with a incident meter about 90% of the time. It's painless. Meter, and shoot for however long the light remained the same. AE is there when you need it. I also have no issues operating the M7 alongside an M6 classic. I realize that I'm holding a different camera and I can adjust for the dial turning in a different direction. It's no more troubling than shooting with two different lenses that have differently placed aperture and focus rings with different feels. God forbid I shoot with my Nikkor 50, where the aperture ring turns in the other direction. The only complaint I would have about the M7's build quality is the plastic battery cover. In no way shape or form does it compromise use, but it does feel less hefty than a metal cover (duh). I think the talk of the M7's lesser build quality are greatly exaggerated, but that's just me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted October 20, 2008 Share #25 Posted October 20, 2008 I don't know how you guys meter, but I meter the same way I do with my Canon 1V. I hardly ever use exposure compensation. I find something that is close to middle gray and set my exposure, using the spot meter. I then just shoot the camera in manual. In situations with changing light, I find middle gray and lock the exposure for each shot. For quick off the hip type shots, I set the Canon to either center weighted or evaluative metering. The M7 gives a little less flexibility since it only provides one metering pattern, but that pattern is an ideal compromise. I use the M7 in manual with a incident meter about 90% of the time. It's painless. Meter, and shoot for however long the light remained the same. AE is there when you need it. I also have no issues operating the M7 alongside an M6 classic. I realize that I'm holding a different camera and I can adjust for the dial turning in a different direction. It's no more troubling than shooting with two different lenses that have differently placed aperture and focus rings with different feels. God forbid I shoot with my Nikkor 50, where the aperture ring turns in the other direction. The only complaint I would have about the M7's build quality is the plastic battery cover. In no way shape or form does it compromise use, but it does feel less hefty than a metal cover (duh). I think the talk of the M7's lesser build quality are greatly exaggerated, but that's just me. I always use my M7 in auto, and like tgray I seldom if ever use exposure comp. I lock exposure and recompose - it takes a split second. I never shoot it in manual - that's what my II and M2 are "for". The shutter dial turning in the opposite direction therefore causes me no problem. Even when I had my M6es I tended to adjust exposure with aperture first, then shutter speed second - that's just what feels comfortable to me. I have no issues with M7 build quality - mine has bounced off a couple of wooden floors, and a church pew followed by a particularly unyielding stone floor without any problems at all. Regards, Bill Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PATB Posted October 20, 2008 Author Share #26 Posted October 20, 2008 Well, it is a good thing I have some time to think this through. I was able to get $500 towards a Leica product when I got my MP two years ago. I will hold out until early next year and see what Leica offers -- and make my decision then. I am just glad Leica still offers great film cameras. I printed two negatives this weekend and viewing and holding fiber prints of my kids always take my breath away. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Johnston Posted October 20, 2008 Share #27 Posted October 20, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) i have an early m7, first owner, complete with flare prone finder (hasn't been a big problem). the dx reader has always worked without problem. primarly use this to shoot color slide film. also have an mp which does plain out feel more substantial and rock solid. preferred use is for b&w. both work fine for me and i feel lucky to have and use them. tomj Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
guywalder Posted October 21, 2008 Share #28 Posted October 21, 2008 If I were to buy any one camera now, it would without doubt be another MP. Why? 1. The MP is noticeably better built than the M7. 2. The AE, whilst (very) occasionally convenient is easily confused. It is still a centre-weighted meter, not a spot, and as such using the arrows and compensating is easier than the rotational EV+- on the M7. ... out of curiousity, what makes an MP 'better built'? There are so few external differences I dont understand what makes that impression... Also I dont see how your 2nd point can count Against the m7, AE is a feature the mp doesnt have, but its also one that you dont need to use, so why compare sub-paar AE performance with a manual camera? Hopefully this doesnt read as though I am 'having a go', I am actually just curious about the idea that the mp is better built.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
waileong Posted October 21, 2008 Share #29 Posted October 21, 2008 I've only used an MP at a dealer, but compared to my M7, the winding felt smoother, the release sounded quieter. The finish felt better, esp the shiny black paint. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgray Posted October 21, 2008 Share #30 Posted October 21, 2008 I personally like the black chrome more than the black paint, but I can see where the black paint feels 'better,' even though it really doesn't mean its built better. The M7 shutter sound is pretty quiet. Certainly quieter than my M6 and most people agree that it's the quietest of M cameras. The winding lever does feel a tiny bit smoother on the M6 than the M7, but I wonder if that has anything to do with the 15 years of use it's had? Also, while it feels smoother on M6, the M7 feels a bit more solid and not as loose, so if you had to ask me which one had a better build quality, I couldn't tell you, only which one felt a bit smoother to use. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
guywalder Posted October 21, 2008 Share #31 Posted October 21, 2008 I dont know for sure, but I would put money on the winding mechanism being the same, surely leica are not mad enough to use a different mechanism in 2 such similar cameras? The release being quieter can also only be down to production variation, the m7 has no gears wirring around, at slower speeds (below 1/60th) the m7 is noticably quieter. My guess is that if you tried several MPs you would see the same variation as you see between trying an MP and an M7. I suppose I am still not convinced the MP is better built OK the surface is subjective, personally I prefer the black chrome, not least because it stays on the camera! (in my book that makes the M7 better built!) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgray Posted October 21, 2008 Share #32 Posted October 21, 2008 My guess is that if you tried several MPs you would see the same variation as you see between trying an MP and an M7. I suppose I am still not convinced the MP is better built OK the surface is subjective, personally I prefer the black chrome, not least because it stays on the camera! (in my book that makes the M7 better built!) Agreed on both counts. I also think the black chrome is less flashier, which I like. The paint looks great, but is shinier. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mongrelnomad Posted October 21, 2008 Share #33 Posted October 21, 2008 out of curiousity, what makes an MP 'better built'? There are so few external differences I dont understand what makes that impression... Also I dont see how your 2nd point can count Against the m7, AE is a feature the mp doesnt have, but its also one that you dont need to use, so why compare sub-paar AE performance with a manual camera? Hopefully this doesnt read as though I am 'having a go', I am actually just curious about the idea that the mp is better built.... No problem on my side: feel free to ask away! 1. There are a few minor specific things that make me 'feel' the MP is better made - those are the prevalence of plastic parts that you actually touch on the M7, whereas the same are metal on the MP. IMO the MP rewind-knob also instils a greater sense of indestructibility than that of the M7. Also, although I have not weighed them side by side, the MP feels slightly heavier and more substantial. My personal MP's film advance is smoother than the M7, and the viewfinder clearer, although in the M7's defence, the MP is also noticably better than my MP3, in itself no slouch. 2. As to the AE, it is simply too easily caught out to rely upon regularly. For the quick 'ok - must shoot NOW' photo, it is definitely usefuly, but locking into AE means you either have to trust the meter, or use the counter-intuitive compensation controls to adjust the exposure. Were I not used to the shutter-speed dial of the MP, this probably wouldn't be an issue as I'd be confident adjusting it manually by touch, but as it goes, the split-second I have to think about which direction to turn the dial is a lost photo... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter_n Posted October 22, 2008 Share #34 Posted October 22, 2008 I've gone from using two M7s to two MPs and used the four together for a while. To be honest I never felt that one was somehow "better" than another, both are really excellent cameras and both are a pleasure to use. The one difference I really noticed is that the M7 is quieter at the slower speeds, in fact the M7 is probably the quietest M I've used. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
usefeet Posted October 22, 2008 Share #35 Posted October 22, 2008 "mine has bounced off a couple of wooden floors, and a church pew followed by a particularly unyielding stone floor without any problems at all" You were in just the right place to be well looked after! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertc Posted October 23, 2008 Share #36 Posted October 23, 2008 I think the review by Irwin Putts on the MP covered well the differences with the M7. From recall he seems to have had a preference for the extra functionality of the M7 when dealing with the varying light when photographing in Lyons, but acknowledged the romance of the MP. I share the same concern as the original questioner about dealing with a fast moving situation using manual only. If I was a pro I think I would have to buy an M7 even though it is not as pretty or as small as my M6 titanium or MP (MP3 style LSA special version which has to be one of the loveliest of Leica configurations). It wins on functionality, not aesthetics. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
boilerdoc Posted October 23, 2008 Share #37 Posted October 23, 2008 You'll have to pry the M7 from my cold dead fingers!!! I think that sums it up pretty well. Steve Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangur Ban Posted October 24, 2008 Share #38 Posted October 24, 2008 I have both - a black 0.72 M7 and a chrome 0.58 MP. Both great. Their differences are an asset and not a liability. It's a good combination for different lenses, film types and moods. Recommended. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kivis Posted October 7, 2009 Share #39 Posted October 7, 2009 I've only used an MP at a dealer, but compared to my M7, the winding felt smoother, the release sounded quieter. The finish felt better, esp the shiny black paint.I had the exact opposite experience. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrid Posted October 11, 2009 Share #40 Posted October 11, 2009 I have had an early production M7 for several years now. The finder was upgraded and works fine. I still have the original DX reader in mine and so far it has worked reliably. Removing film from the camera was only an issue for the first few dozen rolls, but once the camera was broken in the cartridge ejected without a problem. It doesn't always just fall out, like with some of my other bodies, but it's not the end of the world that I sometimes have to pull it out with my fingers. AE is very useful in fast moving situations and as accurate as your photographic skills allow. It's a fat spot meter and you do have to think when you use it, otherwise you will not be pleased with the results. I still haven't used exposure compensation... One thing to keep in mind is that along with the M6ttl, the M7 is the only other M body with TTL flash metering. If I remember correctly this feature was removed from the MP. A poor decision in my opinion. The M7 shutter is very, very quiet. I have several other bodies and he only other that comes even close is a very well worn M2. Built quality is everything you would expect from a Leica. So, far my M7 has been very reliable and while it hasn't been abused, it has been used as it was intended to be. I have two minor and one major complaint: - I wish the battery cover was metal, instead of plastic. But the current one does work... - Black paint would be nice and I would prefer a coarser grained covering. - The framing accuracy of the .7 framelines is horrible from 50mm up, but this also holds true for the M6/M6tll and MP. This could be solved by installing the 1 meter mask from an MP-3. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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