rob_x2004 Posted November 4, 2008 Share #321 Posted November 4, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) .......... Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Of course xkcd link (linked) courtesy of Mani. Where is he by the way? Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Of course xkcd link (linked) courtesy of Mani. Where is he by the way? ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/65530-hot-air-and-broken-promises/?do=findComment&comment=704446'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 4, 2008 Posted November 4, 2008 Hi rob_x2004, Take a look here Hot Air and Broken Promises. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Guest stnami Posted November 4, 2008 Share #322 Posted November 4, 2008 Mani's probably partying his jocks off Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted November 4, 2008 Share #323 Posted November 4, 2008 Jaap, you may be able to write off your camera as a tax-allowable expense but not everyone can. As one of the other threads shows, the cost of trading an M8 for an M8.2 is more than double that of upgrading the M8. Mark, everybody buying a digital camera knows it will write off economically to virtually nil in a given number of years. The M8 maybe less than some - but still. The writeoff is offset by the economical benefit of no film etc costs and the pleasure of use. So I do not think having and using an M8 for say 18 months, recouping about 50%, avoiding upgrade costs and getting a brand new M8.2 is such a bad deal, if one really needs/wants this one new feature. The writeoff on a car is a far higher percentage, I think, and still people buy a new one every few years to get some newest features. Compared to the cost of the whole system, including lenses, computers, filters, batteries and what have you, it is but a small percentage. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted November 4, 2008 Share #324 Posted November 4, 2008 Just as an aside, my DMR has just generated 75% of its original value after 27 months of ownership. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted November 4, 2008 Share #325 Posted November 4, 2008 So you are keeping the 25% ........... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted November 4, 2008 Share #326 Posted November 4, 2008 Just as an aside, my DMR has just generated 75% of its original value after 27 months of ownership. Cameras from well-known photographers always generate premium prices... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted November 4, 2008 Share #327 Posted November 4, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) Please email me when you decide to sell Jaapv I am a sucker for a bargain Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted November 4, 2008 Share #328 Posted November 4, 2008 Just as an aside, my DMR has just generated 75% of its original value after 27 months of ownership. Well Andy the DMR is out of production and if you want to shoot digital with a Leica SLR there isn't much choice in the matter and there weren't that many produced in the first place. Not totally the same with the M8. There are tons of them out there, new and used. If I sell one of my M8's I don't expect to get much more then $3000 for it IF I even get that. I'm putting my black M8 away, yes the one I got as a replacement, for just this reason. It is totally fixed and only has about 700 shots taken with it. I almost put it in the bad this morning, I usually switch out chrome for black, black for chrome on a daily basis so each get equal use but this morning I said NO just leave this one alone in case you want to sell it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted November 4, 2008 Share #329 Posted November 4, 2008 Cameras from well-known photographers always generate premium prices... I will pay you the 10 Euro next time I see you. Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted November 4, 2008 Share #330 Posted November 4, 2008 So you are keeping the 25% ........... The 25% is on my hard drive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomasis7 Posted November 4, 2008 Share #331 Posted November 4, 2008 Whine again. Of course it cost a lot $$$$$$ to have M8,2 when you have 8,0. Ask yourself which is more important? to continue to shoot 8,0 and save expensive nerves or sell 8,0 and upgrade up to 0,2 for many $$$$$ and still save nerves? or just lose many nerves here when the health is immeasurable? Who really cares about value? Leica LOGO represents absolutely no penny savings. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomasis7 Posted November 4, 2008 Share #332 Posted November 4, 2008 Oh dear, why does something trival like a shutter cocking mechanism lead to personal insults and attacks over the net? You all bought your M8's knowing what its specification was, I don't think anyone bought on the condition that they could have a delayed shutter cocking mechanism fitted at a later date. If it really is THAT important to you, there IS an upgrade available, for about £4000 less what you can get for your M8. That will be much less stressful for you and everyone else than getting irate with people you don't even know. yeah it is worth quote this zillion times until some learn to read what it is about Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KM-25 Posted November 4, 2008 Share #333 Posted November 4, 2008 I have pretty much solved the issues I had with the M8, IE: Loud and odd sounding shutter / advance, IR filters that need swapping out for color film use, cropping of $4,000 lenses. I sold the M8 and will not even look at another digital M again until they at least get rid of the need for IR filters. For the past month, I have been on the road shooting nothing but film in Leica M bodies. I just make images and move on, spending far less time on the internet debating about gear that will never be perfect. I have one more month to go... Selling the M8 and forgetting Leica as digital is the best thing I have done in a long time. Of course, your needs and requirements may vary. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wparsonsgisnet Posted November 4, 2008 Share #334 Posted November 4, 2008 K, what are the films you use and what is your workflow to get a digital image? ... I sold the M8 and will not even look at another digital M again until they at least get rid of the need for IR filters. For the past month, I have been on the road shooting nothing but film in Leica M bodies... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomasis7 Posted November 4, 2008 Share #335 Posted November 4, 2008 Selling the M8 and forgetting Leica as digital is the best thing I have done in a long time. if we look how the forums work, you did right decision indeed I will be in hospital very soon even I dont have M8 lol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted November 4, 2008 Share #336 Posted November 4, 2008 I have pretty much solved the issues I had with the M8, IE: Loud and odd sounding shutter / advance, IR filters that need swapping out for color film use, cropping of $4,000 lenses. I sold the M8 and will not even look at another digital M again until they at least get rid of the need for IR filters. For the past month, I have been on the road shooting nothing but film in Leica M bodies. I just make images and move on, spending far less time on the internet debating about gear that will never be perfect. I have one more month to go... Selling the M8 and forgetting Leica as digital is the best thing I have done in a long time. Of course, your needs and requirements may vary. I must admit that this post surprises me far less - in fact not at all- than your post announcing you had bought an M8.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted November 4, 2008 Share #337 Posted November 4, 2008 Cameras from well-known photographers always generate premium prices... Not without the engraved signature of Lord Barton. LOL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSL Posted November 5, 2008 Share #338 Posted November 5, 2008 I hadn't even looked at this thread; it isn't the kind I read. But I became curious why it had gone on so long & took a peek. Now I find myself compelled to contribute, though quite belatedly. What surprised me was the reference to Stefan Daniel's post #106. I realized I hadn't taken seriously the phrase "broken promises" in the title of the thread. A previous Leica announcement made it 100% clear that Leica was committed to making all upgrades - especially firmware upgrades - that would be compatible with the M8 available to its owners. Following that announcement I bought a second one. Am I mistaken in reading Mr. Daniel's post as a forthright reversal of the announced upgrade policy? Did i miss something in the fine print? I saw a couple of polite posts that said in effect that "it's OK, Mr. Daniel, we understand you have to do this to sell M8.2s." On the contrary: It is not OK. Even if Mr. Lee 'went rogue' about this & other issues, the announcement to which I referred was issued under Leica auspices to owners who were encouraged to regard the camera as upgradeable as far as was electronically & mechanically feasible. There was no ambiguity about this, none whatsoever - & no qualification that Leica reserved the right to withhold upgrades. Withholding a firmware upgrade seems to me to be particularly unconscionable, in light of the previous announcement. The upgrades are themselves quite expensive, & surely pay for themselves. And I doubt there's more risk of losing M8.2 sales than of losing another measure of M8 customer confidence - which has not been running high. Nevertheless, whichever way these economic issues turn, it's clear that the 'internal discussion' about the discreet mode upgrade did not adequately weigh ethical responsibility. I have no concluding word except "appalled." I'm sorry to lengthen a beaten-to-death thread, but on finally realizing the situation I have no intention of letting an unethical reversal of policy pass by. It's a terrible affront to 'Leica loyalty.' Kirk Thompson Leica user since 1972 Considering Leica's stellar performance practically since the day the M8 came out it seems hard to believe anyone is surprised by this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhoersch Posted November 5, 2008 Share #339 Posted November 5, 2008 I hadn't even looked at this thread; it isn't the kind I read. But I became curious why it had gone on so long & took a peek. Now I find myself compelled to contribute, though quite belatedly. What surprised me was the reference to Stefan Daniel's post #106. I realized I hadn't taken seriously the phrase "broken promises" in the title of the thread. A previous Leica announcement made it 100% clear that Leica was committed to making all upgrades - especially firmware upgrades - that would be compatible with the M8 available to its owners. Following that announcement I bought a second one. Am I mistaken in reading Mr. Daniel's post as a forthright reversal of the announced upgrade policy? Did i miss something in the fine print? I saw a couple of polite posts that said in effect that "it's OK, Mr. Daniel, we understand you have to do this to sell M8.2s." On the contrary: It is not OK. Even if Mr. Lee 'went rogue' about this & other issues, the announcement to which I referred was issued under Leica auspices to owners who were encouraged to regard the camera as upgradeable as far as was electronically & mechanically feasible. There was no ambiguity about this, none whatsoever - & no qualification that Leica reserved the right to withhold upgrades. Withholding a firmware upgrade seems to me to be particularly unconscionable, in light of the previous announcement. The upgrades are themselves quite expensive, & surely pay for themselves. And I doubt there's more risk of losing M8.2 sales than of losing another measure of M8 customer confidence - which has not been running high. Nevertheless, whichever way these economic issues turn, it's clear that the 'internal discussion' about the discreet mode upgrade did not adequately weigh ethical responsibility. I have no concluding word except "appalled." I'm sorry to lengthen a beaten-to-death thread, but on finally realizing the situation I have no intention of letting an unethical reversal of policy pass by. It's a terrible affront to 'Leica loyalty.' Kirk Thompson Leica user since 1972 Thank you, Kirk, for your concise and clear statement! I do hope someone at Leica reads this and begins to wonder if their marketing policy in this matter was really such a smart move, after all. Who if not their long time loyal customers should they care to satisfy? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted November 5, 2008 Author Share #340 Posted November 5, 2008 Thank you, Manfred. You know who and where to write to... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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