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chris_livsey

Shutter noise/quietness

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I don't agree, for many people including myself who purchased the M8 with a lot of sacrifices with the understanding that it would be upgradable. Leica was quite upfront about this and made it a major selling point. Many of us hung in there with all the problems of the M8 again with the understanding upgrades would eventually fix them. This was not a figment of our imagination it was specifically and clearly pushed by Leica. They read these boards, they knew what the expectations were and nothing was done to dispel them. For them to claim the M8 is upgradable to keep it current at this point is false. They truthful line is "some features may be upgradable in the future" They simply misled everyone and many are going to great lengths to excuse them of that. Of course this is my opinion and I respect others. I will however not be passing anymore money to Leica.

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I've been using my M8-2 for a few days and for me the shutter alone is worth the price of the camera.

Been reading this and other threads on on the upgrade or buy new M8-2 dilema and what I don't get is whether you and others are saying that the new shutter alone is a killer feature (which is great because I can upgrade ) or whether the shutter and re-cock facility combined make the M8-2 much superior. Which is it?

John

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Been reading this and other threads on on the upgrade or buy new M8-2 dilema and what I don't get is whether you and others are saying that the new shutter alone is a killer feature (which is great because I can upgrade ) or whether the shutter and re-cock facility combined make the M8-2 much superior. Which is it?

John

 

Neither is the "killer" feature.

The killer for any company is not to hold to promises when they are possible to fulfill.

Leica promised upgrades of M8. After a 2 year beta-testing period on buyers at their cost, it releases a bug-free model-8.2 (although some bugs are patched rather than resolved). It refuses even to ANSWER if it's possible to upgrade the beta model (8.0) to full fuctionality of 8.2 at the USER'S cost. Nobody wants a free ride here.

I bought M8 because of the genius of my MP. Customers like me, not in pure love with the brand, will not come back for more after such treatment.

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I don't agree, for many people including myself who purchased the M8 with a lot of sacrifices with the understanding that it would be upgradable. Leica was quite upfront about this and made it a major selling point. Many of us hung in there with all the problems of the M8 again with the understanding upgrades would eventually fix them. This was not a figment of our imagination it was specifically and clearly pushed by Leica. They read these boards, they knew what the expectations were and nothing was done to dispel them. For them to claim the M8 is upgradable to keep it current at this point is false. They truthful line is "some features may be upgradable in the future" They simply misled everyone and many are going to great lengths to excuse them of that. Of course this is my opinion and I respect others. I will however not be passing anymore money to Leica.

 

I for one am pleased there is any sort of upgrade program. Does the program have most of what I want? Yes. Does it have everything? No. Do I wish it were cheaper? Surely.

 

But then there is the other question: how much upgrading would there be if Leica weren't around? They are a small manufacturer competing in a world of big corporations. They have tried to accomodate their user base, have made some mistakes and have tried to address them. Not perfectly, to be sure, but they have tried.

 

Lest we forget, there are other companies far less interested in their customer base. I can't say the Leica upgrade program is flawless, but then again, its pretty hard to design one of these programs across international boundaries, with dealers, etc. in the face of a changing marketplace. It would be easier if time stood still and we could all get the latest product for a minimal cost for upgrading. Somehow, that's not likely. So what we have is a good second place.

 

I think we'd all feel better if the M8.2 wasn't so expensive and if the upgrades were cheaper as well. These economic realities (in case someone hasn't noticed) are not Leica's fault, to be sure.

 

Geoff

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I don't agree, for many people including myself who purchased the M8 with a lot of sacrifices with the understanding that it would be upgradable. Leica was quite upfront about this and made it a major selling point. Many of us hung in there with all the problems of the M8 again with the understanding upgrades would eventually fix them. This was not a figment of our imagination it was specifically and clearly pushed by Leica. They read these boards, they knew what the expectations were and nothing was done to dispel them. For them to claim the M8 is upgradable to keep it current at this point is false. They truthful line is "some features may be upgradable in the future" They simply misled everyone and many are going to great lengths to excuse them of that. Of course this is my opinion and I respect others. I will however not be passing anymore money to Leica.

 

Not sure when you bought your M8 but when I bought both of mine there was NO upgrade program. That was not announced for a year and 4+ months after the camera was introduced. Just think about all the people that bought one before you and what they MAY OF had to go through.

Are there upgrades, YES. The promise is fullfilled.

Anyone that thought there would NOT be a newer model including the "proposed" upgrades and other features was just kidding themselves.

I was happy to buy a M8, love using it, and am still happy and I'm not doing any of the upgrades.

Now if you want to talk about service I have a lot to say about that.

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Guest DuquesneG
Not sure when you bought your M8 but when I bought both of mine there was NO upgrade program.

 

Good point. A lot of people bought the M8 after the upgrade program was announced. In fact, for a lot of them I'm willing to bet the upgrade program was the impetus for a lot of fence-sitters.

 

But let's not forget the specific issue we are discussing here: the delayed shutter recock. What wrankles is the arbitrariness of that decision. Leica manages to put the self-same shutter from the M8.2 into the M8 for $1500, yet denies access to the simple delay of the recock. If the M8.2 was 24mp FF and Leica said, "sorry, we can't upgrade the M8 to it", I would not be one of the people angry at them for "breaking their promise".

 

Just think about all the people that bought one before you and what they MAY OF had to go through.

 

With all due respect, that was their decision to be early-adopters of a brand-new Leica product. They should have known there were significant risks.

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With all due respect, that was their decision to be early-adopters of a brand-new Leica product. They should have known there were significant risks.

 

That was my point to the other poster, stop bitching and moaning and enjoy what you have not what might come.

 

I bought my first one in January 2007. I am a almost early adopter. I knew full well all it's foibles at time of purchase

 

If anyone bought a M8 just becuse Leica announced the upgrade program they bought it for the wrong reason.

I bought mine because I like RF's, I like Leica glass, it's digital and there is no other camera I'd rather use.

 

I found for myself if I have a camera and a bunch of lenses that does everything for me I start to lose the challenge and joy of photography.

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There have been several people saying how pleased they are with the new shutter sound on either their M8-2 or updated M8s. No one has actually stated whether the 'whirr' sound, that follows the shutter sound, has become quieter. Could someone please say whether this elongated, annoying sound is less noticeable now? Perhaps even to the extent that the new shutter sound is so unobtrusive that you might not use the discreet mode as often as you thought?

Thank you,

Jeffrey.

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Leica manages to put the self-same shutter from the M8.2 into the M8 for $1500

 

According to this page it's 1,025 Dollars. (And you'll get a 150 Dollar voucher.)

 

Now, either you don't care too much about being honest, or the difference between 1,025 and 1,500 Dollars is negligible to you. If it's the latter, I wonder why you're complaining all the time...

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There have been several people saying how pleased they are with the new shutter sound on either their M8-2 or updated M8s. No one has actually stated whether the 'whirr' sound, that follows the shutter sound, has become quieter. Could someone please say whether this elongated, annoying sound is less noticeable now? Perhaps even to the extent that the new shutter sound is so unobtrusive that you might not use the discreet mode as often as you thought?

Thank you,

Jeffrey.

May be the recock 'whirr' is a bit quieter but not much. it is the shutter release that is so much quieter.

 

Hans

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There have been several people saying how pleased they are with the new shutter sound on either their M8-2 or updated M8s. No one has actually stated whether the 'whirr' sound, that follows the shutter sound, has become quieter. Could someone please say whether this elongated, annoying sound is less noticeable now? Perhaps even to the extent that the new shutter sound is so unobtrusive that you might not use the discreet mode as often as you thought?

Thank you,

Jeffrey.

I think the big difference between the old and new shutter is the initial unlocking sound, a Clunk, and then when the shutter lock re-engages, another Clunk, and because the new shutter runs at a slower top speed, 4000 instead of 8000, the blades of the shutter move slower, that is why the top flash sync speed is lower, down from 250 to 180, with the new shutter. Slower shutter blade movement = less vibration and less noise. The initial and ending Clunks have also been lowered somehow and more then likely the whirr has been muffled.

This is just speculation as I have not even held a M8.2.

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What is this delayed shutter cocking? And why would I want it?

 

It is a option in the menu system that allow you to delay the re-cocking of the shutter until you LIFT your finger off the shutter release button.

So you set that option and when you take a shot and hold down on the release button the shutter will not Re-Cock itself.

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I think the big difference between the old and new shutter is the initial unlocking sound, a Clunk, and then when the shutter lock re-engages, another Clunk, and because the new shutter runs at a slower top speed, 4000 instead of 8000, the blades of the shutter move slower, that is why the top flash sync speed is lower, down from 250 to 180, with the new shutter. Slower shutter blade movement = less vibration and less noise. The initial and ending Clunks have also been lowered somehow and more then likely the whirr has been muffled.

This is just speculation as I have not even held a M8.2.

Since the "new " shutter runs slower it's likely it's spring isn't as strong as the old one. That would also mean less torque needs to be supplied by the re-cocking motor, reducing gearing and motor noise.

 

Bob.

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...

 

gives the impression that Leica as an entity considers their customer base as uninformed and gullible (which we are not!).

 

...

 

Uninformed, I might agree with you - but not gullible? I wouldn't be so sure about that - at least not for the total of the user base...

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Guest noah_addis

Stopped by Leica NJ today to get my remaining lenses coded. I got to hold an M8.2, and try it next to my M8.

 

It's much, much quieter. Without a doubt, even the recocking motor seems quieter for some reason. I could barely hear it from a few feet away in a fairly quiet room.

 

I also hate to admit it, but the delayed recocking seems to be a real improvement. I had originally thought it was silly, but it does make a difference and I can see how it would be useful. Even if you recock fairly soon after shooting, it seems to split up the noise of the shutter and wind and make the whole thing quieter.

 

I was hoping to compare my M8 to an upgraded M8, but they didn't have one on hand. Can anyone tell me if the recocking motor on the upgraded M8 is as quiet as it is on the M8.2?

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May be the recock 'whirr' is a bit quieter but not much. it is the shutter release that is so much quieter.

 

Hans

 

I think the big difference between the old and new shutter is the initial unlocking sound, a Clunk, and then when the shutter lock re-engages, another Clunk, and because the new shutter runs at a slower top speed, 4000 instead of 8000, the blades of the shutter move slower, that is why the top flash sync speed is lower, down from 250 to 180, with the new shutter. Slower shutter blade movement = less vibration and less noise. The initial and ending Clunks have also been lowered somehow and more then likely the whirr has been muffled.

This is just speculation as I have not even held a M8.2.

 

Thanks Hans and Shootist.

I'll be getting the framelines and shutter sorted on my M8 as soon as I can.

Another question: are the 2m framelines fuller in the viewfinder, in that they are more complete rectangles with less breaks in the lines? I don't expect they are because of the usual design necessary when two frames are viewable at once. Is there noticeably less space around them?

 

Jeffrey.

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I would love to take advantage of the extra warranty granted with any upgrade chosen since my camera will run out of it soon but find myself not finding any big complaints about the current M8 :

Shutter Noise ? I shoot street so it does not really matter 98% of time and I don't want to lose the 8000 speed. Low light vibration ? The RD1 is better in low noise anyway, so slow speeds will be used little on the M8.

Framelines ? I use the 25mm CV which fits the 24mm lines perfectly . As for the rest, I usually don't have time to frame perfectly so the extra safety net is useful on my 35mm that I use 90% of time.

Saphire Screen ? It won't prevent the LCD to die at some point, and scratches happen, like any device.

 

So really, the current M8 is amazing just like it is, especially since they added the Auto ISO feature. Maybe I will just take the risk on warranty.

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I also hate to admit it, but the delayed recocking seems to be a real improvement. I had originally thought it was silly, but it does make a difference and I can see how it would be useful.

 

I wasn't so sure about its value to me, either, Noah, but I must agree that its quite a nice feature. It actually can be quite useful.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

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Just occured to me.

 

Original idea about the delayed shutter (how to do, not technical part) came from this forum if I remembered correctly. We should've patented it. Maybe, it would've funded the M8.2

 

Just random bits to the thread, sorry.

 

-T

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