Shootist Posted September 21, 2008 Author Share #21 Posted September 21, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) For all that want my focus test chart I'm going to try to attach them to this post. They are basically the same use it any way you want, IE NO copywrite. Focus Test Chart 13x19 Re-Spacing.pdf Focus Test Chart 13x19 Version 2.pdf Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 21, 2008 Posted September 21, 2008 Hi Shootist, Take a look here Oh Darn a line. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
adan Posted September 21, 2008 Share #22 Posted September 21, 2008 "....just knowing the line is there is going to bother me to no end." All Leica owners - including me! - must be direct descendents of the Princess in the story of "The Princess and the Pea". (wink!) Since it IS a warranty failure, it makes sense to get it fixed under warranty rather than living with it forever - or paying for the repair after several years. I have the same line in my M8 (that was one of the original batch that needed the "greenblob/banding" repaired, so it already had one (free) major surgery). Sending it in next week (after shooting with the line for 18 months) since the warranty runs out in Nov. Interesting to hear that it is a circuitry issue, not something in the sensor itself. That may mean the turnaround is a bit faster(?) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
garygsandhu Posted September 21, 2008 Share #23 Posted September 21, 2008 I had it on a 31*** M8 and sent it to NJ for repair. The repaired M8 had the same line (column of dead pixels) in a different spot. It showed up on higher ISO's and lower (1/15) shutter speeds. Third time the repair was done right. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrickxyz Posted September 21, 2008 Share #24 Posted September 21, 2008 I had it appear on my M8 (310***) some weeks ago and it was quickly getting worse, being seeable down to 160 ISO. Camera is still on its round trip to Solms. Leica Tokyo was so friendly to lend a camera. Had the same mistake. Now I am on second loaned camera (332***) and it shows the same feature at the highest ISO values. But I suspect it to become worth. I did high ISO comparison shots before and after installing new firmware 2.0 and it seems to be more visible in the new software. I wonder how many cameras are developing this mistake and whether it is related to the age of the camera. If so that could bring bad surprises in the coming years. Patrick Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted September 21, 2008 Share #25 Posted September 21, 2008 Sh*t - just joined the club - and again, it's something that I've only picked up on after installing firmeware 2.0 - though now I look back on earlier images its there. What's strange for me is that sometimes the line is BLACK and comes from the top of the image, and others (the ones that have been really obvious since f/w 2.0) have been colourless and run from the bottom of the image. I've only really picked up on it this time because it's so noticeable on the pre-view (blue line). The M8 that's showing the problems was bought in January 2007 ... serial 311***5. Examples below (at 100%). I also face the dilemma about the timing of sending back. I've not checked my later body (a replacement for a stolen camera - supplied April 2008) as it's down in London and I'm in Cheshire...Waiting to see with trepidation... BTW - I think the noise in the candle-lit shot is a good example of how the M8 can hack it! The critical thing here was to make sure that you were metering for highlights, and then re-composing. re the rest of the saga, I suppose what's going to be best is to have the upgrade that I was planning to do done at the same time... Maybe it's an ill wind... Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/63273-oh-darn-a-line/?do=findComment&comment=660517'>More sharing options...
delander † Posted September 21, 2008 Share #26 Posted September 21, 2008 Sorry to read this Chris, If we all start checking high ISO performance we could have an epidemic of the line problem. What will Leica do when this starts appearing on cameras out of warranty? Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
perb Posted September 21, 2008 Share #27 Posted September 21, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) Sorry to read this Chris, If we all start checking high ISO performance we could have an epidemic of the line problem. What will Leica do when this starts appearing on cameras out of warranty? Jeff Add me to the epidemic I counted 15 reports on this thread, plus mine, for a total of 16 so far. When I found the vertical line in my camera I did a search and found plenty of older threads on the subject, so there are bound to be many more cameras out there that had the problem. I could systematically reproduce the line at ISO 320, 640 and 1250 by simply taking a dark exposure at 1/15 s with the lens cap on. ISO 2500 was too noisy to see the line, and I could only see the line at ISO 160 in "real" photographs. I suppose it varies with light falling on the sensor and the temperature of the h/w. Regards Per Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted September 21, 2008 Share #28 Posted September 21, 2008 Hmmm . are we all using Firmware 2.0? It may be that a change in the way in which the pre-view screen writes is drawing this to our attention - or maybe that Auto ISO is encouraging us to experiment with high ISO's that we normally don't bother with... I'm certainly confused as looking back over a number of images from earlier this year at 160 / 320 I don't seen the line... though since the firmware update I can see it in new images at 160... A progressive deterioration that has emerged coincidental to the firmware upgrade, or a fault induced by the firmware... I'm not sorry it's come out now as I'm still in warranty, but it's a real concern for all of us as our cameras age... bummer... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mauribix Posted September 21, 2008 Share #29 Posted September 21, 2008 No Chris, it's not come out now in coincidence with the new Fimware. My camera had still the older one, and I know that many here who encountered that problem were still using older firmware. Maybe your good point is that many here are now encouraged to use higher ISOs, so now they're looking at their pictures more carefully, discovering eventually some issues never noted before. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mauribix Posted September 21, 2008 Share #30 Posted September 21, 2008 The first case, if I can recall it well was almost a year ago... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_x2004 Posted September 21, 2008 Share #31 Posted September 21, 2008 More people than I knew about have sent their kit back to Leica. Disconcerting. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted September 21, 2008 Share #32 Posted September 21, 2008 I'm disconcerted too. I'll report back on what response I get from Leica UK. I've emailed them but will also ring on Monday. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtZ Posted September 21, 2008 Share #33 Posted September 21, 2008 My both M8 are line free, even with firmware 2.000 I bet Leica will propose us soon a sensor upgrade for... $ 3000? Same size than actual but maybe capable to use ISO 50 :D Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
piero Posted September 21, 2008 Share #34 Posted September 21, 2008 in another post I was wondering if the darn line epidemic was in a similar position in each sensor. The demo M8 I was testing a couple of weeks ago had the same problem. Not a travelling M8, as someone suggested that airplane travel (security rays and other magnetic fields) could damage the sensor. The position of the line is erratical, so it will be harder to identify the cause. maybe a component in the camera too close to the sensor... who knows, but being in different position, though always starting from a side and never across the whole lenght of the sensor... Maybe a faulty breed of sensors. It could be useful to identify production time via serial number and figure out if the problem afflicts earlier models. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted September 21, 2008 Share #35 Posted September 21, 2008 Hi - the position on mine seems fairly consistent. The rectangle marks the area on the image where the line shows... Top image at 1250 - the line was obvious on this. Second image at 640 - the line was finer and less obvious. Position seems to be consistent though... Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/63273-oh-darn-a-line/?do=findComment&comment=660736'>More sharing options...
Shootist Posted September 21, 2008 Author Share #36 Posted September 21, 2008 Hmmm . are we all using Firmware 2.0? It may be that a change in the way in which the pre-view screen writes is drawing this to our attention - or maybe that Auto ISO is encouraging us to experiment with high ISO's that we normally don't bother with... I'm certainly confused as looking back over a number of images from earlier this year at 160 / 320 I don't seen the line... though since the firmware update I can see it in new images at 160... A progressive deterioration that has emerged coincidental to the firmware upgrade, or a fault induced by the firmware... I'm not sorry it's come out now as I'm still in warranty, but it's a real concern for all of us as our cameras age... bummer... Chris I'm Using V2 FW on both M8's It isn't on my chrome M8. I also noticed it When reviewing shots on the LCD screen, I first noticed a bright DOT at lower ISO then did some more investigations. I'll post shots from the chrome later in the day. Got to run out now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted September 21, 2008 Share #37 Posted September 21, 2008 Hmm - epidemic? Better get mine in for a fix so that it doesn't get lost in the rush ... I'm hoping that my later example is OK - I've not noticed problems with it... Thank heaven for the 2 year warranty... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted September 23, 2008 Author Share #38 Posted September 23, 2008 I've decided to keep the camera for a few weeks and see if the line gets any worse. I did have it all packed up yesterday to be shipped back but then I thought about all the shipping and receiving to and from Leica service I've been doing in the last 3 months and came to the conclusion I'd rather have 2 cameras to use. the big rpoblem is I just hate the covering on the M8 and have replaced it with CL Griptac. When Leica told me they were replacing the camera I ordered 2 other coverings from CL. One the Griptac and a Black Beauty leather one, not sure which I'll use on the black M8. So now I don't dare change out the covering becasuse NJ service is going to split the casing to fix the line problem and throw whatever cover I put on it away. S for now I'm back to usiing the M8 grip base with the black camera. It will go back but not just yet. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted September 23, 2008 Share #39 Posted September 23, 2008 My decision is to send in to Solms for repair + see if I can get the upgrade at the same time. The latest I hear from them is that the "discrete" shutter is NEVER going to be available with the M8.1, so for the moment I think I'll live with my current bodies but at least have a quieter shutter + better framelines. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted September 23, 2008 Author Share #40 Posted September 23, 2008 Well at this time I'm not doing any of the upgrades. I still have 4 months of warranty on my chrome M8 and 9 on my black. I really would like to try the newer frame lines but can't see doing one camera and not the other, that would be totally confusing. As for the shutter I don't find it that noisy and my chrome unit has smoothed out some. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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