rob_x2004 Posted September 23, 2008 Share #181 Posted September 23, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) Doubt it. It doesnt even exist yet. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 23, 2008 Posted September 23, 2008 Hi rob_x2004, Take a look here A new sensor that can be upgraded is now an obligation. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Guest stnami Posted September 23, 2008 Share #182 Posted September 23, 2008 yes it does!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted September 23, 2008 Share #183 Posted September 23, 2008 and I will be one of the last three If people were banned just for negativity, there'd be about 3 members here Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted September 23, 2008 Share #184 Posted September 23, 2008 Concerning the M: no more need for upgrades, waiting for new sensors, for more speed. There's already a professional camera. Leica S. Hi Iris (or that Roel?) the S is not comparable to one another. Not only are they aimed at different markets, but they are totally different in operation. One thing that many people miss is that people choose an M because it's _not_ and SLR. Perhaps you should discuss this with your boss? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mauribix Posted September 23, 2008 Share #185 Posted September 23, 2008 Yep, I'm glad that Leica made the step to a new professional tool. Back in the office I find a note to put on the forum: Fortunately Leica did listen to professionals, instead of to those who are so sure that profs do not need speed, high ISO's and without no doubt much more. Or if they do, are not very talented. The firm brings now a camera for professionals. In that way it is advertised! Leica deserves a 10 plus as far as I understand the possibilities of the camera. Concerning the M: no more need for upgrades, waiting for new sensors, for more speed. There's already a professional camera. Leica S. Iris. Maybe I didn't read well, but this somehow distorts my feeling. I dont believe that only the S2 is a professional tool. It's a different tool for different professional works. Leica still needs to improve the M8 (even if it's more than usable at the moment and it produces still great images), I'd like it to become a more "pro" oriented tool, and I don't need too much for that: just some reliability and some protection for the electronic parts (weather sealing). That's all in my opinion. I remember my old M6 falling into the mud and then shooting again... I have some reserve for my M8 to do the same... Obviously, as been suggested many times, the introduction of a D-CL (or whatever you may call it) could be a nice step (IMHO) to fulfill the needs of Leica aficionados/amateur and give some room to the M8 to become the Leica flagship of photojournalism/reportage beside the studio-flagship S2. Just my thoughts... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dabow Posted September 23, 2008 Share #186 Posted September 23, 2008 I think we have a 'new' troll. It is noted. At the very least, I am reminded of 'poor worker's always blame their tools'. That's a very poor response. So people are to be labelled here for voicing their opinions! And your a moderator too! Sad. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted September 23, 2008 Share #187 Posted September 23, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) Dabow, If you read carefully you will see that this is one of the most lightly-moderated fora of it's type. Regards, Bill Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted September 23, 2008 Share #188 Posted September 23, 2008 That's a very poor response. So people are to be labelled here for voicing their opinions! And your a moderator too! Sad. Dabow, No one has been 'labelled' for voicing an opinion. OTOH 'attitude', discourtesy and poor public behaviour do atract the attention of all mods. We also have access to information not generally accessible to Forum members in forming our opinions and making our decisions. We do communicate with each other and collectively make decisions. If this makes you sad, so be it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
piero Posted September 23, 2008 Share #189 Posted September 23, 2008 S2 very interesting but: in real world photographic business how many pros can actually find the need for it and justify the price of an S2? In the still life studio, I would not give up the option of tilt shift movements of a view camera. Post production is always involved and most of the work is then printed trough a screen so there goes a big chunk of the qualities of an excellent lens/sensor combination. In the fashion/portrait studio who is going to trade in the Hasselblads or Mamiyas to get an S2? Who would go and shoot the Moto GP with an S2? I'd love to have one, for sure, for the lust of lens/file quality (I can only assume at the moment the quality standard of the outfit) but considering a budget of 30K for the body + the lenses requires a lot of considerations. Not only for aquiring the image but especially for output equipment involved to retain the quality. It is a huge investment. probably, after the move of Hasselblad to impose proprietary digital backs and the response of all other digital backs companies, Leica thought ther is going to be a bunch of people thinking about alternatives. Having a camera slightly bigger than a MKIII with the quality of a Leaf 75s and better... it is tempting. But the cost!!! Only the rich or the Professional Photographer with strong contracts and boundaries with its clients could afford one. We will see. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LLT Posted September 23, 2008 Share #190 Posted September 23, 2008 A few days ago, I was harping on about the M8.2 and the potential M9, craving the full frame sensor, better ISO etc. Everything that everyone has been discussing on this particular blog. A very wise man asked me, "what is it with the results from your M8 are you not happy with?" I thought it about it, albeit brief, and realised that there was nothing that I wasn't happy about! Truly! Yes the M8 has its shortcomings which we are all aware of, but shooting with it is just an absolute pleasure! The quality of the optics is not something some so called "Leica lover" can be biased about. It is a completely different piece of equipment to the DSLRs out there and we have chosen to use the M8 for specific reasons that aren't found in DSLRs. Focus on taking your pictures! That's where the pleasure is... pleasure is definitely not in lamenting that fact that you have got one. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted September 23, 2008 Share #191 Posted September 23, 2008 Focus on taking your pictures! or go to this...... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted September 23, 2008 Share #192 Posted September 23, 2008 A few days ago, I was harping on about the M8.2 and the potential M9, craving the full frame sensor, better ISO etc. Everything that everyone has been discussing on this particular blog. A very wise man asked me, "what is it with the results from your M8 are you not happy with?" I thought it about it, albeit brief, and realised that there was nothing that I wasn't happy about! Truly! Yes the M8 has its shortcomings which we are all aware of, but shooting with it is just an absolute pleasure! The quality of the optics is not something some so called "Leica lover" can be biased about. It is a completely different piece of equipment to the DSLRs out there and we have chosen to use the M8 for specific reasons that aren't found in DSLRs. Focus on taking your pictures! That's where the pleasure is... pleasure is definitely not in lamenting that fact that you have got one. Exactly. This is one reason I find the negative posts so $%^&*. If you don't like the RF way of shooting why did you buy one. If you find that you don't care for the images the M8 produces, Sell it and move on. That's what I did with my Nikon D200. I now very rarely if ever go to a Nikon forum. I have no interest in buying and using a D300, D700, D3 or any DSLR. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooky Posted October 18, 2008 Share #193 Posted October 18, 2008 I would like to believe that Leica will come out with new digital bodies in R and M lines that could be continually upgraded - at least with 'new' sensors. But as I recall from previous mental contemplations in the forum, that the circuits, software, etc., would have to be some how adaptable just makes it unlikely. Until technology stabilizes to the point where doing so will be like any of us going out and putting different tires on our auto, we're out of luck. It's one of the main reasons I won't dump the huge amount of wanga for a high-end 35 frame-size body. The S2 is already a high MgP system, so perhaps dumping all that extra money is justified - why would anyone need to go higher? Considering that, wouldn't the higher cost justify the longevity issue? The M8 is another story as it came to the party a bit late. I'm guessing that when a full frame M comes along (if) that we will start to settle back again and not be 'wondering aloud' as much. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted October 18, 2008 Share #194 Posted October 18, 2008 Leica is in my opinion therefore obliged to its customers And there we have it: in your opinion. In actual fact, they are not, obviously. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
acanalda Posted October 18, 2008 Share #195 Posted October 18, 2008 Perhaps it sounds like a very stupid question but....why do you need a full frame sensor ? I´ve been using a Canon 5d for 3 years. I made really good photos with it but heavy lenses, heavy body heavy bag, heavy flash,....too much for my back. I bought an M8 a year ago. Well, I need an adaptation period as I never have used a rangefinder camera but I love my M8 and really, the sensor size is not a definitive matter. I have made superb photos with this camera, in most cases with and extra effort than with my 5D. And in most cases better photos with an small sensor. IMO;) Regards, Arturo Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
guy Posted October 18, 2008 Share #196 Posted October 18, 2008 Perhaps it sounds like a very stupid question but....why do you need a full frame sensor ? I´ve been using a Canon 5d for 3 years. I made really good photos with it but heavy lenses, heavy body heavy bag, heavy flash,....too much for my back. I bought an M8 a year ago. Well, I need an adaptation period as I never have used a rangefinder camera but I love my M8 and really, the sensor size is not a definitive matter. I have made superb photos with this camera, in most cases with and extra effort than with my 5D. And in most cases better photos with an small sensor. IMO;) Regards, Arturo Agreed. I'm like you, the M8 is my first rangefinder. So of course all the lenses I've bought have been bought with the sensor format in mind. I'm far less concerned about full frame, far more keen to have better high-ISO performance and, maybe, dynamic range improvements. And of course ideally in a sensor I can retrofit into my camera... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bwcolor Posted October 18, 2008 Share #197 Posted October 18, 2008 I am in agreement with Roel. Leica knows by now that if it intends to keep the M series alive, it needs to improve the sensor and make it match the format for which its lenses are designed ("full frame"). And personally I believe they are well on their way to that. Evidence is that all the new lenses they are making, the newest designs, cover the 24x36 format. Film is dead and they know this. If they weren't going with a new FF sensor in the M series, they wouldn't be undertaking to sell these lenses. I further agree that they will be in a tight spot with their public, if they don't bring on the FF rangefinder Leica very soon. And my guess, once again, is that they may be able to put the FF sensor in the M8 and M8.2 and are well on their way to doing this. This would be an upgrade at some cost of course. This would preserve the M8 investment and not obsolete the M8 bodies. And please, don't tell me I should be out taking pictures instead of thinking and hoping to share my thoughts with some other thoughtful and experienced Leica users. And hoping perhaps also to influence Leica a little with a user's concerns and ideas. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted October 18, 2008 Share #198 Posted October 18, 2008 I agree that it would be great if Leica made a FF M, and that they would lose some loyalty if it takes too long, but they are under absolutely no obligation, real or imagined, to do so. They simply choose to do it, if they can, or not. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DuquesneG Posted October 18, 2008 Share #199 Posted October 18, 2008 I have no doubt Leica's #1 priority in the M system is developing a 24x36mm sensor body. Dr. Kaufmann has said as much. I'm sure he knows it will fly off the shelves to current owners of the M8 and 8.2. There are a lot of people who are defending the cropped sensor, but that is in reaction to feelings of, or taunts of, inadequacy versus Canon and Nikon FF DSLRs. The moment there is a FF Leica M9, those people will drop their contrived arguments like hot potatos, and bolt for the nearest Leica dealer with their credit cards melting in their hot hands. But Dr. Kaufmann isn't stupid. He wants to prevent a repeat of the same expensive, embarrassing fiasco of the M8's initial launch. If there are any issues I'm sure he wants them either worked out ahead of time, or at least, to have the PR/marketing department ready with a bullet-proof spin, not piss into the wind way they fluffed the IR filter issue. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted October 18, 2008 Share #200 Posted October 18, 2008 Leica knows by now that if it intends to keep the M series alive, it needs to improve the sensor and make it match the format for which its lenses are designed ("full frame"). The lenses were not designed for just any imager that happened to measure 36 mm by 24 mm. They were designed for 35 mm film. A sensor of any size behaves quite differently than film does, which is why those lenses wouldn’t perform all that well on a digital M with a state-of-the-art 36 mm x 24 mm sensor. On the other hand, Leica managed to build the M8 with its somewhat smaller sensor, so that’s what we have. Everything else is pie in the sky at the moment, and another exclamation of “But I want a pony!” won’t change that. If you think you can help Leica designing the M9, then by all means do so. Everything else is just a waste of time. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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