Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
nugat

M8 with 2.0 firmware high ISO better noise performance?

Recommended Posts

Advertisement (gone after registration)

When the M8 first came out, they made more chrome than black, so a chrome had a chance to be an earlier batch.

 

All I know is my camera got better along with others. Mine came from a later batch in February of 2007.

 

Robert

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nugat,

 

We are burning firewood in our ovens here in Oslo tonight too. Cold, isn't it? I am curious; what kind of oven do you got? Is is a sort of 'svensk-ovn' (Swedish oven) as we call it here in Norway? Is it made of ceramic tiles? Where do you buy it?

 

Very off topic, this. And very curious...

 

Olsen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nugat:

 

Nobody thought to ask if your test pictures were taken with uv-ir filters on the lenses.

 

Did you have the filters on when taking your test?

 

Robert

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
A is the new firmware.

 

Did you have the noise reduction on in Lightroom?

 

What is the serial number range of the camera?

 

Was there any flourecent lighting? It can flicker and change the results.

 

Robert

 

-Why you think it's A? I'll reveal answers on Sunday.

-LR2 default noise reduction 25 in color channel.0 brings out even more purple blobs.

-#3102...

-No fluorescent. Really warm tungsten (2200-2300K) and fireplace on far left.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nugat:

 

Nobody thought to ask if your test pictures were taken with uv-ir filters on the lenses.

 

Did you have the filters on when taking your test?

 

Robert

 

Yes, Leica UV/IR. Can they affect high ISO noise?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nugat,

 

We are burning firewood in our ovens here in Oslo tonight too. Cold, isn't it? I am curious; what kind of oven do you got? Is is a sort of 'svensk-ovn' (Swedish oven) as we call it here in Norway? Is it made of ceramic tiles? Where do you buy it?

 

Very off topic, this. And very curious...

 

Olsen

 

My fireplace is on the first picture of the thread starting post. It is made of ceramic tiles with hand painted west-Ukraine folk pictures. It's hand made, brick&mortar. But the furnace is cast iron+bricks and a hemispherical glass in front that can be lifted totally. It is the size and shape of a semi-stove, half wall height. It radiates heat very nicely around. Even now...

Piotr

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
-Why you think it's A? I'll reveal answers on Sunday.

-

 

 

Oh Boy I can't wait. Never mind it really doesn't matter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Oh Boy I can't wait. Never mind it really doesn't matter.

 

You are right, it doesn't really matter. M8 is as good at low light/high ISO shooting as 20x cheaper Canon EOS350D/digital Rebel (8MP camera). Shot crops below: Leica 1250 ISO, Canon 1600 ISO.

There are no differences in high ISO quality between old and new firmware. One might as well rub the camera with snake oil. But Robert was right, picture A with later # is the new firmware.

 

/applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u175/nugat63/IMG_0005.jpg&key=e35d6a875d36b23eb854d6d4ea3777e8a4b089ce097f30481938027c9689fced">

 

/applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u175/nugat63/IMG_00050005.jpg&key=17a822a3f9e5d3677fd774b23707081e7c0e70d27c0f643605fa5270a332c57f">

/applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u175/nugat63/L10000301000030.jpg&key=fece0a32708ea20d81a620c54286bad7d96819e7f60b24def1fe0d76f5b79145">

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nugat: Thought I would keep the bandwidth down by piggybacking my results on your thread - hope you don't mind.

 

First up: The chart - raw numbers are in the table at the top: If anything V2.0 is a bit NOISIER at ISO 1250/640 - although that is likely within the range of measurement error.

 

Adan:

 

Is your M8 chrome by any chance?

 

Robert

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I tried to replicate adan's methodology and got quite different results. I exposed a macbeth color chart (the large version) in tungsten lighting with my m8 and v 2.000 firmware at ISO 2500 (a 50mm 'lux at 2.6). I shot raw, and converted using the current version of ACR, using the defaults except that I white balanced by clicking on the light gray square.

 

Here's a screenshot from PS (before applying Noisebuster). The marquee area shows a standard deviation of 7.82 in color and 7.00 in grayscale. Applying Akvis Noisebuster (using the automatic setting) reduces these numbers to 6.08 color and 5.6 grayscale.

 

 

The odd thing about these results is what I see in actual shooting is closer to adan's results - shadow area standard deviations of 10-12 (grayscale).

 

Odd.

 

I have two m8 bodies, but unfortunately I updated the second after I read this thread so I can't do a comparison.

 

Woody:

 

Are both your M8 the same or is one Chrome? Which one did you use to make your test shots?

 

Robert

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think this issue deserves a separate thread. I moved my post here and invite all to do more tests. The minimum of the para-scientific method is to compare firmwares with all other parameters unchanged. Take low light 2500/1600 ISO pictures with 1.2.1 firmware, then update to 2.0 and take the same pictures again with other parameters unchanged. Don't tell us what pictures are with what firmware (blind test).

I am also curious about the "Noise reduction" message and countdown when taking pictures with shutters longer than 2 sec. Any gives?

Piotr

PS . Dear moderator, I cannot delete the old post somehow, so there's a duplicate ("edit" option disappears?)

 

I am new to M8 (third day, bought used) but also tried some quick and dirty comparisons for high ISO noise before and after FW update.

I took some pictures through my living room onto the dark dining annex. The lights were three floor lamps and one ceiling with "old fashioned" 60 W bulbs. These bulbs imitate the early 20th century electric lighting, they are dim and very warm. There is also a burning fireplace (damn cold September!). We like our lighting really low for a glass of wine and good jazz. So yes, by all standards it's really dark yet contrasty. A,B, C raw originals were given only auto WB and auto development in Lightroom2. The camera AWB chose 3200K, the Lightroom 2800K.

The three pictures A, B, C are same ratio (appx 1/3) crops of the full M8 frame and were taken on a chair+release cable with:

 

1) Ultron 28mm; 1/8 sec; f2.0; ISO 2500; firmware 1.2.1

2) Ultron 28mm; 1/8 sec; f2.0; ISO 2500; firmware 2.0

3) Summicron pre-asph 50mm; 0.7 sec; f5.6; firmware 2.0

 

Match A,B,C to 1,2,3 please.

 

 

 

Disappointed? Well sirs&madams, I offer you truth, the whole truth and only truth...The purpose of the excercise was comparison of noise and not a pulitzer...

__________________

Leica MP, M8, D-Lux-3; Epson RD-1; Canon DSLRs

 

 

What I would love you to do, as I have been meaning to, is to do another picture comparison for the readers to match a picture with the taking lens! This comparison was to compare high ISO noise pre- and post-firmware 2.0 update, but I want a lens comparison! Mix the same pix taken wth Voigtlander, Zeiss, and Leica glass (if you have them, I know you have leica glass and Voigt). I would bet my new car payment that the readers *cannot* tell the difference between pictures taken with various lenses much more than 50% of the time! Make this test with low ISO. If a LeciaNut cannot tell the leica glass 95% of the time, then (as I contend), the readers should stop dissing non-Leica glass!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Robert

 

What do you think the reasons are for the improvement of the high ISO performance in the later cameras. I purchased my M8 in Dec. 2006 and have alway been very unimpressed with the 1250/2500 ISO performance.

 

Thanks

Judy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Robert

 

What do you think the reasons are for the improvement of the high ISO performance in the later cameras. I purchased my M8 in Dec. 2006 and have alway been very unimpressed with the 1250/2500 ISO performance.

 

Thanks

Judy

 

I don't know if there is an improvement in later cameras. I was hoping there was somebody that had two M8 and could see a difference depending on the firmware version. So far, those of us that have noticed a difference do not have comparable shots with the old firmware to compare.

 

In my case, I didn't read the warning that you could not go back to the old firmware until after I had done the update. So I can't provide any evidence one way or the other.

 

I was just hoping there was a pattern to those finding better performance. It is not just me that has noticed this improvement, but also some other respected members of this forum and other forums.

 

What I must stress is the the 1250iso is probably the speed that is now more usable than in the past. I posted the 1250iso samples in the new firmware thread.

 

Robert

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From the other thread:

 

This was just available light and I was shooting at f2 and the 35mm Summicron ASPH. I just did a straight Lightroom conversion and resized in Photoshop, with a little sharpen.

 

 

I think the 1250 would make a very decent 8x10 or 11x14 print. The 2500iso could be processed to make a decent print too.

 

Here is the 1250iso:

/applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=http://forum.getdpi.com/gallery/files/2/2/l1031582_1200.jpg&key=725f1732be5132d88701a13873c6b653caaf1264fa231237349945032f61910b">

 

The 2500iso:

/applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=http://forum.getdpi.com/gallery/files/2/2/l1031583_1200.jpg&key=70db92c770b5044904130ecb7fadd1c09d2b4c87810fa8a1e2a7df96bacbb551">

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue., Read more about our Privacy Policy