rfleica Posted October 3, 2006 Share #81 Posted October 3, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) Again, if you are reading this thread and would value faster access to ISO and EV controls, please chime in. Sean No question about it: quick change of ISO, as well as fast ISO status checking, would be extremely useful to me. And I have pre-ordered my M8 6 months ago, so it's not a hypothetical wish:) . Regards Robert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 3, 2006 Posted October 3, 2006 Hi rfleica, Take a look here Some More M8 Thoughts. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
steve_l Posted October 3, 2006 Share #82 Posted October 3, 2006 Actually, I agree that changing the process so that a few less presses are needed would be great (confirm just by returning to shooting mode) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted October 3, 2006 Share #83 Posted October 3, 2006 Been thinking about this and i go back to the dial and the shutter to confirm. Here is how i see a way to do this that keeps the eye in the camera. First you hit the shutter half way this brings the metering to the correct exposure but it releases the arrow keys also so for ISO you would hit the Up and down arrow keys as the shutter is held down half way and get to the ISO you want than let go of the shutter this confirms your setting at say ISO 1250 and it stays there until you change it again so shoot 20 frames than go back to half shutter up and down and release to confirm. On the EV side same thing hit the shutter half way to release the arrow keys to left for under and right for over and set the EV you want say -2/3 than let go of shutter and sets it until you change it. The key is the half shutter release, releases the arrow keys to become active. On play the arrow keys become active when you hit the play button. This way when shooting if you hold the shutter release half way if you accidental hit the arrow keys it may move the ISO or EV but it was never confirmed because you did not release your finger to set it than it stays at the last setting you had. This way the camera can't override you. The Key to it is the release of your finger to make it set otherwise nothing happens until that confirmation. This is so simply in practice. Now along with that there is the warning in the viewfinder say you have the EV switch on , so as a reminder that you need to change or go with what you have just like it is already is there. The ISO has to be shown somewhere be it in the top circle LCD or when you are making the change the ISO flashes it in the viewfinder and goes away after you set it. By flash i mean maybe the shuter spped indicator in the viewfinder switches to ISO numbers while you are making the change than reverts back when you set the ISO back to shutter. i am really liking this idea, right here . makes for a completely fluid movements without ever taking you eye away for anything. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted October 3, 2006 Author Share #84 Posted October 3, 2006 re firmware idea...(thinking that the easier it is the more likely it is to happen soon) since the SET button already brings up the correct menu, can't you already control these items with out looking? sort of like ISO on the R-D1? just know how many clicks down each line item is, and then adjust using the arrow keys? It means extra clicks, perhaps, but that way you get access to all of the commonly adjusted items (ISO and EV for everyone, and WB for the JPEG shooters, and whatever else is on that menu for everyone. Perhaps all that is needed is a way to reorder the menu, to put the ones you want most at the top, like I can do with my cell phone? Am I missing something on how the SET button works now? Hi Steve, The set menu is very well designed for what it is. Pressing the set button will open that particular menu and will highlight the control last chosen (so, if one chose ISO last, that's the item the screen will highlight). Once you get a chance to work with the camera you'll see how much that differs from the system I'm advocating. The current system really requires that one use the LCD for visual confirmation of what's going on. Again, there's a reason that no other professional digital camera relies on the LCD for key settings such as ISO and EV. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rvaubel Posted October 3, 2006 Share #85 Posted October 3, 2006 Hi Steve, The set menu is very well designed for what it is. Pressing the set button will open that particular menu and will highlight the control last chosen (so, if one chose ISO last, that's the item the screen will highlight). Once you get a chance to work with the camera you'll see how much that differs from the system I'm advocating. The current system really requires that one use the LCD for visual confirmation of what's going on. Again, there's a reason that no other professional digital camera relies on the LCD for key settings such as ISO and EV. Cheers, Sean Sean Thats the pity of it. If only a little window had been provided to display ISO/EV, their menu system for control would have been fine (OK, yours is better). I'm not really complaining that much, but how hard would it be to put a little, ittsy, bittsy bubble window in the top plate? I wonder if a modification like that would really be that expensive. Rex Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsteve Posted October 3, 2006 Share #86 Posted October 3, 2006 Leica is still thinking of the M8 like a film M with a digital back. In the days of the M being used professionally, they were small enough that you hung three of them on your body. One for each lens or different films in each. When I used to shoot with Steve Unsworth in Paris, we each would have two or three Ms loaded with the different films or lenses we wanted to shoot. Leica has provided the Tri-Elmars to solve the lens problem, but I think they still want you to by multiple M8 in order to have quick ISO changes . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
albertwang Posted October 3, 2006 Share #87 Posted October 3, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) multiple M8s? Man, that's getting a lil bit pricey just for ISOs eh? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted October 3, 2006 Share #88 Posted October 3, 2006 You mean i may have rob three different banks. that means i have to go buy 3 ski masks. Do you know how hard that is buying ski masks in the desert. :D Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rvaubel Posted October 3, 2006 Share #89 Posted October 3, 2006 You mean i may have rob three different banks. that means i have to go buy 3 ski masks. Do you know how hard that is buying ski masks in the desert. :D Guy Don't you mean to say you thave to rob three different banks to buy one M8? Rex Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted October 3, 2006 Share #90 Posted October 3, 2006 Either way i am in trouble. LOL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_l Posted October 3, 2006 Share #91 Posted October 3, 2006 Sean, Of course you are right with your proposal - i just didn't absorb it the first time through your review....that makes it really easy to do it all, and it still requires two presses to actually change anything so it isn't likely to do it by accident. And like with my Canons, just pressing enough times to get to either end of the scale and then backing off a few clicks lets you do it in the dark without looking...even if you don't know where you started. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted October 3, 2006 Author Share #92 Posted October 3, 2006 Sean,that makes it really easy to do it all, and it still requires two presses to actually change anything so it isn't likely to do it by accident. And like with my Canons, just pressing enough times to get to either end of the scale and then backing off a few clicks lets you do it in the dark without looking...even if you don't know where you started. Hi Steve, Exactly, one must press a right or left arrow for the function, then an up or down arrow for the value, then lightly on the shutter to confirm. Very fast and yet unlikely to happen accidentally. If one knows his or her starting point, this can all be done by feel with one's eye at the finder. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted October 3, 2006 Author Share #93 Posted October 3, 2006 Leica is still thinking of the M8 like a film M with a digital back. In the days of the M being used professionally, they were small enough that you hung three of them on your body. One for each lens or different films in each. When I used to shoot with Steve Unsworth in Paris, we each would have two or three Ms loaded with the different films or lenses we wanted to shoot. Leica has provided the Tri-Elmars to solve the lens problem, but I think they still want you to by multiple M8 in order to have quick ISO changes . That first point is an interesting analogy. Multiple bodies still make sense for me but for different fast primes rather than for different ISO levels. I have been working with a 5D and two R-D1s, now it will be an M8, 5D and one R-D1. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted October 3, 2006 Author Share #94 Posted October 3, 2006 In MANUAL mode, M8 aperture adjustments are in 1/2 stop increments and shutter speed adjustments are in full stops - just like all M's. In AUTO mode, shutter speed adjustments are "nominally" (as displayed in the viewfinder) in 1/2 stops - but the "actual" shutter speed may vary slightly from the displayed one; just as in the M7. Malcolm, Sorry that I missed this earlier. You're mistaken. On the the M8, the shutter speeds move in half-stops as I discussed in my review. The dial is marked in whole stops but there are half-stop detents in between each speed marking. It is not like previous Ms. The next time you want to make a factual correction about something I post, you should get your facts straight first. "No ideas but in things" - William Carlos Williams Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kobold Posted October 4, 2006 Share #95 Posted October 4, 2006 Those changes to the M8's operation suggested here would make a big difference to anyone working in- and out-of-doors quickly on the one job. My last two jobs involved just that, so as Sean and Guy (and others) have suggested, this would really improve the usability of this new camera. Let's see what happens. And on the sofware/firmware side, AFAIK, it is not necessarily the case that a change will affect the whole software (nested items, for example, if changed can have their effects limited to the local objects). So, if talking about the buttons (and of course, without seeing the existing code!!!) it not impossible that the new behaviours have the limited effects described and one could be confident that the rest of the program would go on behaving as it has done so far. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted October 4, 2006 Share #96 Posted October 4, 2006 In MANUAL mode, M8 ... shutter speed adjustments are in full stops - just like all M's. Malcolm-- Actually, previous mechanical M cameras have more-or-less continuous speeds. That is, turning the speed dial a little beyond a detent will decrease the slit width just a little, and so forth. Put more clearly: Speed dials on mechanical Leica M's to date are mainly continuous. They are discontinuous around the flash-sync speed of 1/50th, and also around the cam changeover point in the neighborhood of 1/30th to 1/8th. Exact location of the cam changeovers varies between M5 and M4/M2/M6, and I believe between all of those and M3. I'm not sure about the matter with M6TTL. I assume the current MP works as did the M4/M6, but it may be more like the original MP/M3. --HC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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