gogopix Posted October 2, 2006 Share #41 Posted October 2, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) Sean's request makes a lot of sense, since I don't know of any other way (except emails from big buyers) that would helpLeica set priorities. I wonder how they did the original selection? Having dedicated buttons is great but in many systems these can be user defined. For example the delete/protect buttons are useless when no image ison the screen. They could be used for IOS/EV this would be tied to the user profile, for example another bizzare aspect is that the user profile in R9 is very handy and wheel set. stepping thru would help (then ISO combos could be pre-set The SW engineers will cry 'foul' that is we are designing for them No, we are simply saying how we would like hardware used (like use delete/protect for EV up/down!! :-) The R9 has wonder full EV control. It is really the way it should work. Instead of changing Iso, you should be looking at a pattern of up down as the exposure eeds change around an average point. That is the way I think of it. This method has the added advantage of shifting the speed if that is what you want (assuming you don't want to fiddle with DOF. But the little R9 EV switch will have to wait for the M9 I guess :-) good work Sean. BTW, anyone here have direct access to Leica thinking? That is really the way to do it. regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 2, 2006 Posted October 2, 2006 Hi gogopix, Take a look here Some More M8 Thoughts. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
marknorton Posted October 2, 2006 Share #42 Posted October 2, 2006 I agree. Here's my summary... 1. Pressing the shuutter release should return you to shooting mode from whereever you are in the menu, including saving changes made. 2. Look to the Digilux 2 to see an example of how to assign each arrow button to one of the functions to avoid using the menu. To change ISO: Arrow (1), Up/Down/Dial, Shutter Release To change EV: Arrow (2), Up/Down/Dial, Shutter Release 3. While some people think the Protect Button is not useful, too late now, so don't assign it to another function which doesn't correspond to its label. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gravastar Posted October 2, 2006 Share #43 Posted October 2, 2006 I agree. Here's my summary... 3. While some people think the Protect Button is not useful, too late now, so don't assign it to another function which doesn't correspond to its label. Yes, all the button labels are part of the body casting, very expensive to change. That would seem to indicate Leica intend to keep the same labels for a long time. Bob. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted October 2, 2006 Author Share #44 Posted October 2, 2006 I agree. Here's my summary... 1. Pressing the shuutter release should return you to shooting mode from whereever you are in the menu, including saving changes made. 2. Look to the Digilux 2 to see an example of how to assign each arrow button to one of the functions to avoid using the menu. To change ISO: Arrow (1), Up/Down/Dial, Shutter Release To change EV: Arrow (2), Up/Down/Dial, Shutter Release 3. While some people think the Protect Button is not useful, too late now, so don't assign it to another function which doesn't correspond to its label. Hi Mark, 1) Yes 3) Allowing it to be assigned "optionally" through a custom selection in the menu does make sense I think. It won't confuse anyone unless he or she specifically opted to change it's purpose. The people who might want this most are PJs shooting in JPEG, it could give them faster access to WB settings. Hi All, Again, Leica is looking at the firmware ideas I sent. I'd just like to see how many people would value having faster access to these controls. At some point, I'm going to send a link to this thread to some contacts at Leica. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
baloo Posted October 2, 2006 Share #45 Posted October 2, 2006 Hi I would welcome the new setting for the iso and ev change Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted October 2, 2006 Share #46 Posted October 2, 2006 Sean, there are 4 arrow buttons, so they could directly select ISO, EV, WB and one other... No need to restrict it to just 2. If you do want to use the Protect button, I think it should be programmable in the same way it is on the R-D1 and they should schedule an engineeing change to change the label from "Protect" to "Function" or "User". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlm Posted October 2, 2006 Share #47 Posted October 2, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) imo, you will need another button push to "activate" the arrow pad, otherwise, an in-advertent push would bump ISO or Ecomp. so, for example, to re-set ISO: hit SET, (left thumb) then up/down arrow, then half-press shutter, SET, or 5 sec time-out to accept and de-activate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted October 2, 2006 Share #48 Posted October 2, 2006 Yes, that's the way the D2 works, separate button to active the arrow pad, but the more buttons you have to press, the less improvement in usability there is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jelderfield Posted October 2, 2006 Share #49 Posted October 2, 2006 I have to agree with Sean on getting the ISO change up to the "top" as much as possible. To have to go deep into the menu will be a real pain. There are many days where I will leave my ISO alone all day but on others will want to change it all the time. Leica should make this as a easy as possible. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
malcolm Posted October 2, 2006 Share #50 Posted October 2, 2006 That's true to an extent, yes, although it's important to keep in mind that the ISO moves only in whole stops whereas the aperture ring and shutter dial move in 1/2 stops. Cheers, Sean In MANUAL mode, M8 aperture adjustments are in 1/2 stop increments and shutter speed adjustments are in full stops - just like all M's. In AUTO mode, shutter speed adjustments are "nominally" (as displayed in the viewfinder) in 1/2 stops - but the "actual" shutter speed may vary slightly from the displayed one; just as in the M7. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted October 2, 2006 Share #51 Posted October 2, 2006 1, Replace the USB port with the SD memory slot. I have never used the USB port on the DMR, (does anybody?) and would prefer a faster change of memory card. Mark yes i do for tethered work and really need to have it plus some folks download from it which i think is a mistake. I agree two cards would be nice though , Raws on one Jpeg the other or a mix After about one half century of photography, I really like to have the card and battery slots well protected. My own gripe is that the USB interface is not there snug and dry under the baseplate too. That dinky little USB hatch will certainly be the first thing to come to grief on most M8 cameras. I sure hope it will be easy and inexpensive to repair! (On second thought, strike out 'inexpensive' - we're dealing with Leica Camera AG ...) The old badger from the days of flashpowder Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted October 2, 2006 Share #52 Posted October 2, 2006 Lars if it is like the DMR cover it is just a rubber material and has yet to fall off. Replacing it should be only a couple dollars ( i know leica) but it is attached so it is not something you take off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted October 2, 2006 Share #53 Posted October 2, 2006 It seems to be made of hard rubber or a slightly flexible plastic like polypropyene and is tethered to the camera at the bottom. Looked fine to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wparsonsgisnet Posted October 2, 2006 Share #54 Posted October 2, 2006 Sean, I vote for directly accessible ISO and EV -- with the setting VISIBLE in the readout on the top left. I hope Leica makes changes per your suggestion. I have mentioned a few times in the Forum that the ISO and EV settings on the D2 have become my bettes noires. 'Grats 'n' thanks in advance for getting Leica to fix this. Regards, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rvaubel Posted October 2, 2006 Share #55 Posted October 2, 2006 Sean,I vote for directly accessible ISO and EV -- with the setting VISIBLE in the readout on the top left...... Sean Next time (M9) put the frame counter (and battery indicater) bubble on the right, where it belongs like all the other M's. Then put the ISO and EV settings on the left, where the remaining frame bubble currently resides. As long as I can see the ISO & EV without resorting to menus, I'm happy. Rex Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted October 2, 2006 Share #56 Posted October 2, 2006 I don't see any possibility of showing the EV and ISO on the existing display. An LCD like this doesn't have a dot matrix on which you can display anything you like, but a limited 3 digit 7 segments per digit display with additional custom segments for the battery indicator. As such, it will be impossible to display a 4 digit ISO or a +/- EV in units of 0.5 EV. You can already use the set button to show the settings on the main LCD and if they do go for the arrow buttons, the LCD should display the new setting while you are using the up/down/dial to adjust the setting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fnuernberger Posted October 2, 2006 Share #57 Posted October 2, 2006 Especially, when doing weddings, being able to adjust ISO on the fly quickly is VERY important. I've now learned to do that on my Canon 1d MK2 with eyes closed: left hand: press thoselower two buttons simultaneously then turn that dial on the top with the right hand. Also it helps, when you change between shooting at available light (the stuff some like to do most) and then having a guest ask you to take a nice shot of his and his wife --> set ISO from 1600 to 400, set WB from 2800 Kelvin to Auto, switch on flash and snap. (I wish I had a decent individualisation enigne that let me program that stuff myself: "if flash is active --> set ISO to 400 etc.) Then, I could either enable or disable my "program". I also agree on making that function (arrow up/down for ISO change, maybe plus "set") optional - this kind of individualisation makes products successful - think of the browser extensions for firefox. That stuff has helped them alot to compete with the MS Internet Explorer. (Sounds like an analogy to the Leica vs. Canon competition).... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted October 2, 2006 Author Share #58 Posted October 2, 2006 Sean, there are 4 arrow buttons, so they could directly select ISO, EV, WB and one other... No need to restrict it to just 2. If you do want to use the Protect button, I think it should be programmable in the same way it is on the R-D1 and they should schedule an engineeing change to change the label from "Protect" to "Function" or "User". Hi Mark, I'm fairly certain that it's far too late to change that button labelling so I think that's out of the question for now (my opinion, not a fact from Leica). In the firmware revision I've suggested to Leica, those up and down arrows need to be usable for value changes, so they aren't available as function selectors. If you get a chance, take a look at that section of the review again to see what I have in mind; I explain things in detail there. My goal is for EV and ISO to be adjustable by feel alone, that's what is needed for fast professional work. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted October 2, 2006 Author Share #59 Posted October 2, 2006 imo, you will need another button push to "activate" the arrow pad, otherwise, an in-advertent push would bump ISO or Ecomp. so, for example, to re-set ISO: hit SET, (left thumb) then up/down arrow, then half-press shutter, SET, or 5 sec time-out to accept and de-activate. I'm not sure if you've read the section of the review that talks about my firmware ideas yet but the system I'm proposing requires two button presses in succession to activate. That should make accidental changes much less likely. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted October 2, 2006 Author Share #60 Posted October 2, 2006 Sean,1. I vote for directly accessible ISO and EV -- with the setting VISIBLE in the readout on the top left. 2. I hope Leica makes changes per your suggestion. 3. I have mentioned a few times in the Forum that the ISO and EV settings on the D2 have become my bettes noires. 4. 'Grats 'n' thanks in advance for getting Leica to fix this. Regards, Hi Bill, 1. That would be great but it's too late for that. 2. Me too <G> 3. Yes, I recall. 4. You're welcome but it remains to be seen if the changes will be made. At least they're interested. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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