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M8.2 Price: $6295 / £3990

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I am not with most of you who say the prices for Leica lenses are fine.

I think we should not neglect that Canon Nikon etc. have closed the gap in optical quality quite a bit.

I shoot my Nikon and Leica side by side often and I dont feel to miss anything when I use the 14-24 vs the wate, or the 24-70 vs the 50/1.4 (yes, 2 f-stops, but then again the D3 has 3 stops advantage in high ISO and has shallower DOF than a cropped sensor), or the Nimkon 105/2.0DC vs the 75/1.4 or 75/2.5.

 

I now use the Leica mainly because I like rangefinder, and not because I believe (any more) the Leica lenses.

 

Therefore I think Leica has to come down with lens prices, at least if they plan to sell more than some handsfull of lenses. But we have the choice-thats the good thing.

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As to the price of the new M8.2, it is what it is. If you want one buy it. If not then buy the M8 standard for $700.00+/- less or don't buy any Leica at all. That is totally up to the person.

I'm looking at this as film is not a option. I did a quick calculation of the number of shots I've taken with the M8 and what it would cost to take the same number with film. Just the film cost would be in the $2500 range. Add in developing and you are up there.

 

As to whether I'll buy a M8.2 I don't know. That all depends on what happens with my black M8 which is on it's way back to Leica NJ for a third time, supposedly to be replaced. But I don't have a replacement in hand so you never know what NJ will do.

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Guest DuquesneG

It always sounded completely assinine to me that Leica would force new customers desiring the upgraded features, to buy a non-upgraded camera and then immediately ship it away for a few months. Looks like they figured that out. OTOH, I most definitely do NOT want the new framelines, which evidently Leica listened to a few loud voices screaming in their ear and were convinced to cater to their personal selfish preferences, and abandon the 50yr+ policy of having the framelines never cut anything off in the closeup range. So what I wonder is, if someone buys the M8.2 could they get Leica to swap the framelines for the IMO more accurate (i.e. not going to cut parts of the subject off at close up) original M8 framelines.

 

As to the price, I only know from big dealers in the USA that sales of the M8 fell flat a while ago, because it had reached market saturation. Will a slightly-revised M8.2 for $800 more attract new customers? We'll see. Will it convince someone to trade up? I'm sure some people won't bother to do the math, so, yes. Today you can get a used M8 for around $3500. Now that it's "obsolete"

I expect a gaggle of them to go on the block, so the price will likely drop to $3000 or less. Buying one and upgrading for $1500-2000 is a lot cheaper than buying an 8.2. Options galore. Me? I'm going to keep my M8s as-is until the warranties run out, then get the cheapest form of upgrade, and another year warranty. Save the real money for a real improved model...whenever and if ever it comes.

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I suppose it would make more sense to follow the Nikon / Canon model and lower the price on the outgoing flagship and introduce the new at the price point of the old one - but we're discussing a system here that is not typically seen as gear for the masses.

Sorry - there is simply no way the average person is going to get into the Leica system at new prices unless they are a "well-heeled" enthusiast or professional that can justify the expense somehow - or sell lots of gear for one lens.

Why anyone is shocked by the pricing of the M8.2 or the exotic lenses is beyond me. If you need the speed of the Noctilux or 21 Summilux, you deal with it. Just like the photographer that shoots wildlife or sports - if you need a 400/2.8 or 600/4 - the choices are rather narrow, and very expensive. High end optics are not cheap...nor are the professional grade bodies they get stuck on. Leica is closer to bepsoke tailoring than mass market fluff, and the buyers have high expectations of the product. One can only hope that some of the growing pains we've seen with the digital M system will start to sort themselves out now.

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Why anyone is shocked by the pricing of the M8.2 or the exotic lenses is beyond me. If you need the speed of the Noctilux or 21 Summilux, you deal with it.

 

 

yes i did deal with it thanks

 

3k for a noctilux and 3k for an M8 (GBP)

 

but you seem to be completely misreading what's going here:

 

These new prices are *not* a continuation of the VERY HIGH prices that Leica have always enjoyed ... rather, they are a MASSIVE price hike to take it to stratospheric levels. Ineed, a price hike that comes precisely at a time when Leica are so badly positioned in the digital world. With a FF m9 likely to now cost a minimum of say 6000 GBP.... a complete suite of leica gear works out a similar price to a Hasselblad digital system. And of course we all know that one is a kids toy compared to the other. You can fit almost 4 M8 images inside one H3D image ..... and thats ignoring the tonal quality and sesnor size for a second.

 

I got into the M system with one set of prices. But now its a very different deal althogether. My camera cost me 3k, then 3 years later when its replacement arrives I'm going to have to shelve out more like 6k. So, think about it, I feel tricked. If you can't understand that then you need your head tested. Since when has the flagship Nikon or Canon pro DSL doubled in price every 3 years ?

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When I went to bed last night my M8s were still both working, having read this thread I decided I better check and see if indeed they were still yet working - and yeah they were.

 

I paid 5500CDN for the first one in early Nov. 06 and about 1000CDN less in early December the same year (different dealer).

 

I will wait to see what the Oct. upgrade announcement looks like and continue to use with pleasure the M8 now classic.

 

Until such time as the M9 with a full frame sensor and better noise control shows-up - everything else (in my opinion) is sauce for the goose. That said I like sauce on my goose so I will seriously consider upgrading, with the possible exception of the vulcanite...

 

My best guess is the upgrades will take my total cost of ownership close to the cost of the M8.2 without black paint, et al.

 

Best Regards. Terry.

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I don't expect that Leica will lower the price of the M8 significantly, but I do think they'll sell the old ones as demos for a significant discount, just to move the stock they have–that way they can effectively lower the price but with a shorter warranty. That'll create three price tiers: used (which will drop as demo prices come down & there are more on the market), demo, and M8.2. Perhaps a vibrant used market will bring more folks into the system– a lot of folks have been looking for a digital CL under $3k, and they may very well get it with a used M8.

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Leica is closer to bepsoke tailoring than mass market fluff.

 

 

Yeah, we all agree, but we also fear that Leica is becoming too bespoke.

If professional photographers desert Leica - which is already an on-going process - and average enthusiasts march out... then Leica will become rich boys' toy. Dealers will be reluctant, country-wise technical support - whatever remains - will dwindle... you see it's a chain reaction.

 

If you welcome that future of Leica, then it's a different issue. If you can't afford but are equally happy that a few will eventually do, i.e. to be happy at others' prosperity, is undoubtedly a noble gesture, but unfortunately that does not help Leica to sustain in the market. All the M8.2 supporters, please show me the market which Leica wants to carve out for itself.

Kauffman might burn his cash, but how long? Crunch is being felt everywhere and the Fed has stopped bailing out:cool:

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3k for a noctilux and 3k for an M8 (GBP)

 

I paid around half that for my Noctilux when I bought it in 2002. I assume you felt that what the lens had to offer compensated for the doubling in price in a 6 year period. The same applies to the M8.2. If it doesn't have anything you want then you don't buy it.

 

Speculation on the price of an M9, which is probably a minimum of 2 years away, is a waste of time IMHO - but feel free to vent.

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leica need to make real-world products to survive ....

 

I can't see how making the M system even more esoteric and mythical will make them much profit... it will most certainly alienate certain customers or pice them out, yet do little to attract in new business.

 

Let's hope they can announce something that can seriously become a legitimate player in the pro MF digital world

 

as far as 35mm goes, in my opinion it looks as if they are very quickly extinguishing themselves

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leica need to make real-world products to survive ....

 

I can't see how making the M system even more esoteric and mythical will make them much profit... it will most certainly alienate certain customers or pice them out, yet do little to attract in new business.

 

Let's hope they can announce something that can seriously become a legitimate player in the pro MF digital world

 

as far as 35mm goes, in my opinion it looks as if they are very quickly extinguishing themselves

 

It seems your wish will come true..http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/63591-code-name-afrika.html#post655461

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As to the price, I only know from big dealers in the USA that sales of the M8 fell flat a while ago, because it had reached market saturation. Will a slightly-revised M8.2 for $800 more attract new customers? We'll see. Will it convince someone to trade up? I'm sure some people won't bother to do the math, so, yes.

 

Let's put it like this. My local and very large Leica dealer isn't exactly thrilled at the prices Leica is asking these days. They are making it very difficult for him to move stock. What usually happens is that someone comes and looks at the Leica glass. The majority of them can't afford it or bristle at the prices and end up buying a cheaper Zeiss or Cosina lens (or a used Leica lens), on which of course he makes less profit.

 

M8 sales have slowed considerably and more often than not he has a customer walking out the door with a D700 or no camera at all.

 

If Leica thinks they can stay in business selling 250 Noctilux a year, they are on the right path.

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.........1300 GBP price increase for a black logo, quieter shutter and a bit of sticky grip tape is a joke........

 

R - Hi. Whilst I would welcome a new shutter upgrade and the improvements to the shutter release etc., I am not in the market for an upgrade or an M8.2 no matter how useful it would be for me. However, I do share your concerns for the 'road map signals' the new pricing suggests given the extraordinary improvements coupled with significant price drops in Nikon/Canon world [but there again, I can't afford them either].

 

£4000 [including celebratory tipple to wash the taste of Leica's price away] is a hell of a lot of money and will likely make entry to the M8 system even less accessible than it has been.

 

............... Chris

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Ahhhaa!! remember people like Jaap and Steve are dentists, lawyers, MPs etc and not photographers so they have only some sense of the requirements of the photographic industry. Yes they will state they have friends who are photographers blah blah etc.........well I have friends who are doctors, dentists but this doesn't mean I really comprehend the core nature of their business.

Many here buy Leica because the can afford to, it makes them feel good and sorta puckers up the ego at times. So they will defend and defend, defend

 

 

Being one of these non-pros/enthusiats who can afford an M system, do I have to feel guilty now.....

Although the M 8.2 is definitely priced outside of what I would be willing to pay for it..

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Yes - there is no internal UV/IR filter, other than the minimal one already implemented on the M8 classic.

 

Jaap, this is a quote of Leica's own press release, spec sheet, talking about the sensor:

 

Image sensor: Low-noise CCD sensor specially optimized for the requirements of the M

lens system. Pixels: 10.3 million. Dimensions: 18 mm x 27 mm. Extension

factor: 1.33 x. Aspect ratio 3:2. Coverglass thickness 0.5 mm, full

suppression of infrared light by additional UV/IR filter. Moiré filter: no, but

full exploitation of the lens capabilities by Moiré fringe detection and

elimination by digital signal processing.

 

this is the link: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/vbcms_areas/vbcms_custom_content/pdf/englisch/m82_eng.pdf

 

It really is controversial, but it seems they have solved the IR filter problem.

Sein that had a prototype tested testifies he doesn't need those extra IR filters anymore.

I believe that an updated M8 will never be able to get that filter

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Guest Essemmlee

It is a fact that I once paid £13,000 for a Harley- Davidson Road King Classic. I could have bought a Japanese Honda Fireblade (or two even). I wasn't a professional rider.

 

My M8 and lenses cost a lot less than that and are still giving me pleasure and I use them every day. The Harley was used for a Sunday jaunt.

 

The new camera and lenses do cost a lot of money but they are not too bad compared with other popular hobbies. If you are a pro the cost is even easier to justify.

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Jaap, this is a quote of Leica's own press release, spec sheet, talking about the sensor:

 

Image sensor: Low-noise CCD sensor specially optimized for the requirements of the M

lens system. Pixels: 10.3 million. Dimensions: 18 mm x 27 mm. Extension

factor: 1.33 x. Aspect ratio 3:2. Coverglass thickness 0.5 mm, full

suppression of infrared light by additional UV/IR filter. Moiré filter: no, but

full exploitation of the lens capabilities by Moiré fringe detection and

elimination by digital signal processing.

 

this is the link: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/vbcms_areas/vbcms_custom_content/pdf/englisch/m82_eng.pdf

 

It really is controversial, but it seems they have solved the IR filter problem.

Sein that had a prototype tested testifies he doesn't need those extra IR filters anymore.

I believe that an updated M8 will never be able to get that filter

I know. In general the meaning of the word `additional` has been taken to mean that one must add a filter to get full IR surpression.

It would be sensational if you were right and that alone would justify the extra cost of the M8/2. But until now the sensation has not broken loose....

I don't see where Sean comes into this. As it is, at the end of his M8-2 preview,where there is nothing about this supposed filter, he wishes for an internal IR filter.....

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Coverglass thickness 0.5 mm, full

suppression of infrared light by additional UV/IR filter.

 

Which is exactly how it works a present. For full suppression of IR you need an additional filter - over the lens.

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The new camera and lenses do cost a lot of money

 

Exactly, if you have a lot of money, you can nurture your hobby. for the rest, schadenfreude.

sorry for my wallet, mate.

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Guest DuquesneG

My best guess is the upgrades will take my total cost of ownership close to the cost of the M8.2 without black paint, et al.

 

Best Regards. Terry.

 

Black paint?? Did you say paint?? Is that right, the "new" M8.2 uses black paint instead of black chrome? In that case, even if I didn't already have an M8 I would buy a demo or a used one and get it upgraded if I wanted the better-reliable shutter or the crackable-vs-scratchable screen cover. I made the idiotic mistake of buying an MP in black paint and it looked like a POS in 6 months and by the time I sold it to finance my 1st M8 I got less for it than my black-chrome M6TTL!

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