Philippe D. Posted September 13, 2008 Share #41 Posted September 13, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) ... these prices make this stuff just aspirational halo gear for the rich and famous.Yeah.They finally put a black logo on the M8.2, it's a black hole for money many don't have. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 13, 2008 Posted September 13, 2008 Hi Philippe D., Take a look here M8.2 plus 21 Summilux. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
georg Posted September 13, 2008 Share #42 Posted September 13, 2008 The increasing prices (not specific to the new Summilux and Noctilux) are caused by extremely high material prices (speculation) and the weak US-Dollar. Because the US-market is so important, Leica (like many German companies) has to increase prices even in Euro-regions to "relieve" the Dollar-prices (otherwise Dollar-prices would even be higher!). The M8.2 frame lines are more "accurate" than the M8-frame lines, because their designed for the focal length at 2m (like with all previous M-models) and not 0.7m (M8). Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddp Posted September 13, 2008 Share #43 Posted September 13, 2008 I hope Leica have some other suff up their sleeve... these prices make this stuff just aspirational halo gear for the rich and famous. Quickest way to sign their own death warrant imo. We (and leica) need REAL equipment, thats useable in the REAL world, at REAL prices that properly sells in numbers. Making Leica into something more mythical and enigmatic is a big mistake. Last time I checked, the current 21 & 24 Elmarits were still available for the masses. The 24 has been widely discussed as one of Leica's more outstanding pieces of glass as well. If these 3 new lenses indeed materialize - many will of course criticize the cost, but some will also applaud the Leica design team for simply making them in the first place. Prime lenses are making a comeback amongst pro - shooters after a number of years of "try to do it all" zooms by the big guys. It's nice that Leica has gone back to making some truly exotic lenses, and while I may not be able to afford them any time soon, I'm simply glad they're availabe.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted September 13, 2008 Share #44 Posted September 13, 2008 Like I said we asked for them no matter how we slice the cheese we asked they delivered. So now you have the choice . Some will get them obviously and some will not . But nice to have choices . Also what we asked for is what we got with the 8.2 . It pretty much followed the laundry check list we had many months ago and many conversations in the forums on improvements. Something we all worked on and it seems Leica went after them and made the fixes and improvements to a lot of them. I heard the 8.2 is real and that is not official word but I would not say it if I was not pretty confident this is true. So the M seems set for Photokinia but what is next is the big question and what is the special Sept. 22nd announcement. My bet it is something bigger than the M8 sensor wise and not smaller. I'm out of here for a week to do a lighting workshop in Florida so hopefully something good will happen. Take care folks Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted September 13, 2008 Share #45 Posted September 13, 2008 ... and while I may not be able to afford them any time soon, I'm simply glad they're availabe.... Well said. I can't afford an Aston Martin. But I am glad that someone still makes them, because they brighten my day, every time I see one on the road (which is often round here...) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted September 13, 2008 Share #46 Posted September 13, 2008 I heard the 8.2 is real and that is not official word but I would not say it if I was not pretty confident this is true. Come off it Guy. Heard from whom? The M8.2 is real and coming next week. They wouldn't have pulled the Norwegian web page if it were all untrue. It's very good news. As is the news about the 21 and 24 luxes and the new Noctilux. All of which must surely be true, given the press coverage already. All this new stuff coming from Solms in the next month, and announced at Photokina, is the result of many hours of work by the elves there, many hours of interviews with many people all over the world, feedback from this forum, feedback from other sources, "Leica days", treffen, everything they can think of to get their product better and "out there". This is not the work of one man, or one dinner. I am so looking forward to Photokina, and learning about the stuff we DON'T know about. Yet... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philippe D. Posted September 13, 2008 Share #47 Posted September 13, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) I can't afford an Aston Martin. But I am glad that someone still makes them...Since years, i hesitate between Aston Martin and Maserati...In the mean time, i got a little VW. I did hesitate too for an expensive Distagon ZM 15mm. Now they seems almost affordable. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted September 13, 2008 Share #48 Posted September 13, 2008 5000E .. thats just ridiculous I hope Leica have some other suff up their sleeve... these prices make this stuff just aspirational halo gear for the rich and famous. Quickest way to sign their own death warrant imo. We (and leica) need REAL equipment, thats useable in the REAL world, at REAL prices that properly sells in numbers. Making Leica into something more mythical and enigmatic is a big mistake. Probably they have... but there is a time for any thing they do... of course, also MY instinctive reaction to that 5Keuros prices is "what hell...?" , but I think we must think more rationally to these kind of stuff: their optical dep. is first class, undoubtly, and they must remember this to the market with flagship products, probably with a low-volume future (but they will SELL some hundreds... not to me, btw;) ): it's a rational and concrete way to keep their visibilty in the high range (Summarits don't act like this... and I am a happy user of one), and to prepare their market for the future REAL equipment you speak of. For me, is another confirmation of the fact that, as I said many months ago, they are maybe becoming really marketing-wise. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted September 13, 2008 Share #49 Posted September 13, 2008 Some interesting comments here. Two neat things I saw in the referenced articles which I didn't see mentioned here (sorry if I missed something, it is late...): - The glass in the new Noctilux costs more than silver by weight. - The M8.2 will support SDHC up to 32GB. I hope we get a new firmware for the M8 to handle SDHC... If the price of the old Noctilux drops, I might have to satisfy myself with one of those. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delander † Posted September 13, 2008 Share #50 Posted September 13, 2008 - The glass in the new Noctilux costs more than silver by weight. . I'm afraid silver is not expensive, it means nothing Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted September 13, 2008 Share #51 Posted September 13, 2008 $20/troy ounce, = $20/31g. Not that cheap, but not like gold, clearly. Anyway, just an interesting comparison. I am sure that Canon glass is not that expensive Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted September 13, 2008 Share #52 Posted September 13, 2008 Some interesting comments here. Two neat things I saw in the referenced articles which I didn't see mentioned here (sorry if I missed something, it is late...): - The glass in the new Noctilux costs more than silver by weight. - The M8.2 will support SDHC up to 32GB. I hope we get a new firmware for the M8 to handle SDHC... If the price of the old Noctilux drops, I might have to satisfy myself with one of those.[/quote] Me too thought of this... but don't hope too much... it passed away and reachied the paradise of superclassics... frankly, I think will be unprobable to find an "old f1" at reasonable price.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delander † Posted September 13, 2008 Share #53 Posted September 13, 2008 $20/troy ounce, = $20/31g. Not that cheap, but not like gold, clearly. Anyway, just an interesting comparison. I am sure that Canon glass is not that expensive I wonder if these new lenses use fluorite elements, the better Canon glass does Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted September 13, 2008 Share #54 Posted September 13, 2008 Given what the f2.8 21/24mm Elmarits cost why are people surprised at the cost of these Summiluxes? If you can't afford one - and much as I'd like a 24mm Summilux I doubt that I can - then just be thankful that there's a company still prepared to push the limits. I'm as certain as I can be that these will be the best lenses of their speed and focal length available to the public. Many of us have M8s and ASPH Summicrons. Try and explain to someone who owns a p&s with a similar pixel count why you spent 15 times as much to buy what seems at first sight a similar camera. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted September 13, 2008 Share #55 Posted September 13, 2008 Come off it Guy. Heard from whom? The M8.2 is real and coming next week. They wouldn't have pulled the Norwegian web page if it were all untrue. It's very good news. As is the news about the 21 and 24 luxes and the new Noctilux. All of which must surely be true, given the press coverage already. All this new stuff coming from Solms in the next month, and announced at Photokina, is the result of many hours of work by the elves there, many hours of interviews with many people all over the world, feedback from this forum, feedback from other sources, "Leica days", treffen, everything they can think of to get their product better and "out there". This is not the work of one many, or one dinner. I am so looking forward to Photokina, and learning about the stuff we DON'T know about. Yet... Andy given all the facts published and what i hear from others , It seems very true. I still have a NDA my friend so i could not say anyway. Since it is out there in the public pretty freaking hard to deny. And frankly cut the crap WE all have been working at this stuff for a long time and i said it repeatedly this is a result of many. . I would cut that last line out because you sound pretty silly and MANY of us have been around a long time that put in a lot of good input. And this is not the result of a few. Please tell me whoever said that, not me. All I referenced was a meeting that we talked about this stuff and it is quite interesting a year and half later this is coming to life. Guess we just can't tell stories anymore without being insulted. You of all people no less. I guess opinions of non Leica owners is not good enough anymore. Or worse yet past owners. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted September 13, 2008 Share #56 Posted September 13, 2008 As you say Guy, lots of people realised from day one of the release of the M8 that fast wide angle lenses were missing from the lens line up. I sure Leica realised this as well as any of us - in fact I'd be surprised if they weren't painfully aware that their fastest Summicron had become the equivalent of a 35mm lens, let alone the fact that their fastest Summilux was the equivalent of a 50mm. I also tend to think that the influence from the forum and individuals can be exaggerated. Leica as a company must have been thinking about, and designing, what was missing from a lens point of view before they got the M8 out of the door. If they can boost ort collective egos by saying 'thank you for the suggestions', well it makes us all feel better, but I think it's more marketing than research. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacker Posted September 14, 2008 Share #57 Posted September 14, 2008 The M8.2 is real and coming next week. They wouldn't have pulled the Norwegian web page if it were all untrue. It's very good news. You mean the samples and probably, some stuff behind glass displays till the next show. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted September 14, 2008 Share #58 Posted September 14, 2008 The Summiluxes are supposed to be available at the end of the year. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted September 14, 2008 Share #59 Posted September 14, 2008 As you say Guy, lots of people realised from day one of the release of the M8 that fast wide angle lenses were missing from the lens line up. I sure Leica realised this as well as any of us - in fact I'd be surprised if they weren't painfully aware that their fastest Summicron had become the equivalent of a 35mm lens, let alone the fact that their fastest Summilux was the equivalent of a 50mm. I also tend to think that the influence from the forum and individuals can be exaggerated. Leica as a company must have been thinking about, and designing, what was missing from a lens point of view before they got the M8 out of the door. If they can boost ort collective egos by saying 'thank you for the suggestions', well it makes us all feel better, but I think it's more marketing than research. You maybe right in some ways Steve but i think this forum from the beginning put some push behind a lot of the improvements at least like to think the effort here did something good, too many good people trying to improve it. At the end of the day though all that really counts is some of that has been realized but still a little short on some things. I thought for sure and maybe i am wrong . Hopefully I am that a 12,15 or 16 would hit the streets this time. It just made a lot of sense. Great new stuff also but no bread and butter product that we see any new rumors on like a small M. Maybe there is something still left in there stocking, let's hope. I myself would love a small something that I can always carry. My outfit is not remotely close to that walk out the door with something in my hand feeling. If not this time maybe next. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 14, 2008 Share #60 Posted September 14, 2008 I don't think it is that bad. I've just been looking through the M8 book. No lack of talent there. But it is a pity I agree, there are plenty of talented photographers with not the kind of money to buy Leica gear, however, fortunately owning a Noctilux is not a prerequisite for taking great images. As good as Leica gear is (and every other manufacturer of cameras) has the standard of photography improved noticably over the last 30 years or so in line with the perceaved improvement in lenses etc.It definitly has in sports photograthy.30 years ago a good picture taken a Wimbledon would show the tenis ball on a pic as at best a yellow blur.For the past few years in a similar picture the ball is that sharp you can almost see the markings in it.Modern fast telephoto have got to be a factor. If all of us with an M8 could only ever have a 35mm ,50mm and a 90mm no faster than f2.8 would are photography be any worse.Sure some picture taking situation would need a differant approach but the same talanted people would still produce the best results whatever their budget for glass. Brian Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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