badpets Posted September 10, 2008 Author Share #41 Posted September 10, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) I think that's one of the great ways to define it. My photography experience is actually very close to you. I love photographing children while I travel and I think M8+Noctilux produce the best result for me. I agree with most of what others have already said. A good picture isn't determined by what equipment is used but by what affect the picture has on the viewer. That affect is also determined by what the viewer is looking for in the picture - a family snapshot, fine art, portrait of a loved one, photojournalism, travel documentation, insight into other worlds, a life changing experience, a decisive moment! If the experience of the photograph meets the expectation, it's a good or great picture! In order to meet the expectations of the viewers of my photographs, I use Leica M8's Tina Tina Manley- powered by SmugMug Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 10, 2008 Posted September 10, 2008 Hi badpets, Take a look here A Good Picture. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
badpets Posted September 10, 2008 Author Share #42 Posted September 10, 2008 To Steve, I appreciated your input here. I think it has been a mistake to get into this conflict with you. So I wish we could stop it from now on for the well-being of this forum. If you still have anything against me, let me know through PM, I will explain to you. Cheers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted September 10, 2008 Share #43 Posted September 10, 2008 Persecution complex? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted September 10, 2008 Share #44 Posted September 10, 2008 I've read this thread through again and really I don't see any problem or 'conflict' in what Steve has said. You ask such an open question and then appear to disagree with some of the responses! Anyway, as I'm not an M8 user I'll bow out of this one gracefully as clearly I won't be able to tell the difference between a good or bad picture, not being an M8'er. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted September 10, 2008 Share #45 Posted September 10, 2008 Think about a Lomo toy cameras. I think it's a perfect example how instrument can dominate the result of image besides photographer's sense/skill. And the difference between film and digital cameras is that now we have sensor, internal processor and software etc. as variables that may contribute to the final result. Good argument... but one can go to the extremes... let'say: - Digital cameras are instruments to record images of real world in a very manageable digital format (and with good catching of REALITY if it's a M8 ... or even some MF digital back, undoubtly...) - Technology (HW + SW) allows people to CREATE an incredible number of NEW images starting from one or more of the above recordings. - In the near infinite field of the possibilties there are "good PICTURES" (remember Wharol's Marylin?...) but also "great IMAGES" that probably cannot anymore be defined as "pictures" (I mean in the sense "picture" = "photo" = "tech reproduction of reality") Just speculation... personally, being not at all an artist, I simply take pics, hoping they are "good"... but of course there is a whole world around,, beyond, and starting from digital "pictures" that maybe one day will reveal its Michelangelo... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elansprint72 Posted September 10, 2008 Share #46 Posted September 10, 2008 Except that the word construction 'different than' is a detestable use of English! Never mind that Bill Bryson says it's OK... Bryson is not alone in this assertion, Fowler's Modern English Usage and the OED both confirm that different can be followed by from, to and than; the "convention" that only "from is correct is de-bunked as superstition. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elansprint72 Posted September 10, 2008 Share #47 Posted September 10, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) I've read this thread through again and really I don't see any problem or 'conflict' in what Steve has said. You ask such an open question and then appear to disagree with some of the responses! Anyway, as I'm not an M8 user I'll bow out of this one gracefully as clearly I won't be able to tell the difference between a good or bad picture, not being an M8'er. Every single word here applies to me too, good-bye. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
badpets Posted September 10, 2008 Author Share #48 Posted September 10, 2008 the conflict is that he thinks this is a terribly foolish topic and shouldn't be in this list and i think it's very meaningful topic and should be in this forum. i'm not asking everyone to agree with me, but i have to defend myself from people who look down on my question. but anyway, right now, i don't care anymore. I've read this thread through again and really I don't see any problem or 'conflict' in what Steve has said. You ask such an open question and then appear to disagree with some of the responses! Anyway, as I'm not an M8 user I'll bow out of this one gracefully as clearly I won't be able to tell the difference between a good or bad picture, not being an M8'er. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted September 10, 2008 Share #49 Posted September 10, 2008 A 'good' photograph is actually very easy to define - it is a photograph which fulfills the requirements for which it was taken, whoever it was taken by, whatever it was taken for and immaterial of its subject matter! Just as a 'bad' photograph is one which doesn't. As to how the new technology of the M8 links to this, well it may because the M8 is considered by the photographer to be the most appropriate camera to use, or for a whole series of subjective or objective arguments (a few seem to have been aired here). Or quite simply because the photographer enjoyed using the M8 to take the image with! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
badpets Posted September 10, 2008 Author Share #50 Posted September 10, 2008 i think it's a very good way to define it. i feel my photography has improve dramatically since i purchased the M8. M8 on my perception of "good picture" is the quality of details/sharpness/3D-effect in these image when blown to A3 prints. looking at A3 prints sometimes makes me feel i'm in the picture. it's like watching a movie on a TV set v.s. in a Theater. A 'good' photograph is actually very easy to define - it is a photograph which fulfills the requirements for which it was taken, whoever it was taken by, whatever it was taken for and immaterial of its subject matter! Just as a 'bad' photograph is one which doesn't. As to how the new technology of the M8 links to this, well it may because the M8 is considered by the photographer to be the most appropriate camera to use, or for a whole series of subjective or objective arguments (a few seem to have been aired here). Or quite simply because the photographer enjoyed using the M8 to take the image with! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
badpets Posted September 10, 2008 Author Share #51 Posted September 10, 2008 luigi bertolotti, that's a very interesting point. Nowaday, we have software like photoshop where we photo retouch our images. So the good image do depend on instruments to those who pursue perfection. But then people who believe in reality maybe be against the idea of photo retouching. You will be surprised how "natural" nowaday retouched photo look! - In the near infinite field of the possibilties there are "good PICTURES" (remember Wharol's Marylin?...) but also "great IMAGES" that probably cannot anymore be defined as "pictures" (I mean in the sense "picture" = "photo" = "tech reproduction of reality") Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted September 10, 2008 Share #52 Posted September 10, 2008 the conflict is that he thinks this is a terribly foolish topic and shouldn't be in this list... I certainly don't think it should be in the M8 section of the forum. Asking what is a good photograph is a question that should be camera independant IMHO. There was once a participant here who wanted the photograph forum to be split into digital and film sub-forums so that he wouldn't have to look at digital images. I thought that was wrong then, and I disagree with the premise that 'good' photographs should be camera specific. Of course because this is a brand specific forum the photographs are brand specific. But the question 'what is a good photograph' should live outside of that restraint IMHO. Last week I was in Perpignan and had the chance to look at hundreds of outstanding photographs. I was never worried about what camera had been used to take them, or indeed if they were digital or film. The only time I was aware of what camera had been used was in an exhibit sponsered by Canon where the camera and lens were shown underneath each image. The topic isn't foolish, but it's not one that will get a concensus answer - which is why I have replied in the manner I have. Each individual will respond differently to an image. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted September 10, 2008 Share #53 Posted September 10, 2008 ...M8 on my perception of "good picture" is the quality of details/sharpness/3D-effect in these image when blown to A3 prints... But that's only defining a 'good' photograph in terms of its technical aspects. Is that really all there is? I was looking at some images shot by DDD in Korea. Technically they weren't that great, but they had a powere and an ability to pull the emotions that none of my sharp and clean M8 have ever had. I'm sorry, but your response just proves to me why the basic premise of your question is terminally flawed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
arminw Posted September 10, 2008 Share #54 Posted September 10, 2008 My definition of a good photograph does not depend on the quality of the picture. It could be a pinhole camera , a shoebox with an opening , a M8 or H3d .... the picture has to hold a story that is easy to understand, it should trigger some emotional responds from the viewer and the compositing as already mentioned has to keep hold of once eyes and make them want to wander over and over again ... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
badpets Posted September 10, 2008 Author Share #55 Posted September 10, 2008 I appreciated it, Steve. Thank you. If the administrator decides to move this topic to IMHO, it's fine with me. I rarely use other section of this forum beside M8 and Flim. I certainly don't think it should be in the M8 section of the forum. Asking what is a good photograph is a question that should be camera independant IMHO. There was once a participant here who wanted the photograph forum to be split into digital and film sub-forums so that he wouldn't have to look at digital images. I thought that was wrong then, and I disagree with the premise that 'good' photographs should be camera specific. Of course because this is a brand specific forum the photographs are brand specific. But the question 'what is a good photograph' should live outside of that restraint IMHO. Last week I was in Perpignan and had the chance to look at hundreds of outstanding photographs. I was never worried about what camera had been used to take them, or indeed if they were digital or film. The only time I was aware of what camera had been used was in an exhibit sponsered by Canon where the camera and lens were shown underneath each image. The topic isn't foolish, but it's not one that will get a concensus answer - which is why I have replied in the manner I have. Each individual will respond differently to an image. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
badpets Posted September 10, 2008 Author Share #56 Posted September 10, 2008 ok. But that's only defining a 'good' photograph in terms of its technical aspects. Is that really all there is? I was looking at some images shot by DDD in Korea. Technically they weren't that great, but they had a powere and an ability to pull the emotions that none of my sharp and clean M8 have ever had. I'm sorry, but your response just proves to me why the basic premise of your question is terminally flawed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 10, 2008 Share #57 Posted September 10, 2008 I disagree. M8 is a different camera and it produces unique images. My question is meant to address to M8 users and that's why it's here. Again, only those who are interested in my initial question reply please. My question intends no harms so I hope you can be kind to it too. From a technical point of view - maybe. But your question is pertinent to the content of the image - and has had the same answers - or lack of them since the renaissance... Start with looking at paintings, etchings, engravings and other pictorial art, and you will come up with your own unique answer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted September 10, 2008 Share #58 Posted September 10, 2008 This really does belong in the Bar. Regards, Bill Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elansprint72 Posted September 10, 2008 Share #59 Posted September 10, 2008 This really does belong in the Bar. Regards, Bill Preferably not Barnacks though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 10, 2008 Share #60 Posted September 10, 2008 As long as badpets pays for the beer... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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