M8.2

[chris_tribble]

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Sean - while you're around - are you able to indicate if you will be formally reviewing whatever changes might be coming along? CLEARLY this doesn't imply any confirm / deny on the present rumour - simply that it would be great if someone with no axe to grind is likely to be getting an early opportunity to comment before the rest of us decide what to do with our money. Your comments on the new shutter were already very helpful - and have made me think that I'll go that way with at least one body. Great if you're also going to be able to do us the same service on whatever emerges after September 15.

 

Best

[dalippe]

Actually ISO 1600 is quite good if you resample the files to match the pixel dimensions of cameras like the 5D, D700, M8, etc.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

 

Sean,

 

I had always thought it should be possible to increase signal to noise by down-sampling high iso images, but my simple attempts using bicubic in photoshop never seemed to help very much. How are you resampling to achieve the result?

 

Thanks.

 

David

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[delander †]

Actually, it is more than a match in many respects.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

 

I dont have a Nikon D3 but does the 1ds3 match it in terms of low noise at high iso?

 

Or are you saying that if you downsize its images to 12mp it does?

 

Jeff

[Shootist]

I dont have a Nikon D3 but does the 1ds3 match it in terms of low noise at high iso?

 

Or are you saying that if you downsize its images to 12mp it does?

 

Jeff

As far as I remember the newest Nikon are hands down much better at high ISO then any other camera ever built, including the newest Canons.

It got some Canon shooters switching brands.

[terrycioni]

Actually, it is more than a match in many respects.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

 

Sean, are you shooting Nikon these days, I apologize as I realize this is hardly relevant to the topic at hand but your above comment must come from some significant experience of which I am interested, although I don't own Canon equipment as good as it is.

 

Cheers to you. Terry.

[Guest DuquesneG]

I'm surprised nobody mentioned it (so maybe there's a simple reason I don't know about) but in the M8.2 specs it said 16-bit referring to color depth. Is that a change, or is it still knocked down to 8 by the time the camera writes the file? (The file size of DNG is the same as it has been).

[cbretteville]

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Yes its the same "16 bit colour resolution" term used for the original M8 to describe the 8bit square root compressed format.

- Carl

[egibaud]

many of us rushed for an M8 when it came out, the lucky ones got it first but... had to send it back to Solms...

 

So we have what we wanted, a digital M, so I'll wait to see what the M 8.2 is doing before rushing to have one :-)

 

If M3 users are happy and can live without an M7.... I'll wait and see....

[Guest DuquesneG]

Yes its the same "16 bit colour resolution" term used for the original M8 to describe the 8bit square root compressed format.

- Carl

 

Ah. Thanks. So, bottom-line, in terms of absolute DNG IQ, M8.2=M8.

[sandymc]

Actually ISO 1600 is quite good if you resample the files to match the pixel dimensions of cameras like the 5D, D700, M8, etc.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

 

Sean, sorry, but that's not what I see. As I look at images from my D700, even if you look at them at the same pixel density as an M8, the D700 is at least a stop better, probably a stop and a half. Now admittedly, that's not a scientific evaluation the way you do your lens tests, so if you have done a side by side can you post the images????

 

Sandy

[jaapv]

Actually ISO 1600 is quite good if you resample the files to match the pixel dimensions of cameras like the 5D, D700, M8, etc.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

 

I believe you, I'm just parroting...

[Hookeye]

I see that the specs for the M8.2 describe compatibility with "Memory medium: SD and SDHC cards up to 32 GByte".

 

Does this mean that there will likely be a firmware upgrade also for the M8 - or do you think this will be exclusively for the M8.2 ?

[andybarton]

SDHC is, AFAIK, different hardware from SD, so the hardware in the camera would need to be changed. I am pretty sure this is why SDHC hasn't been offered as a firmware enhancement already - one would have thought that it would have been an easy thing to do, if it were easy (if you see what I mean)

[Guest farbtupfer]

SDHC is, AFAIK, different hardware from SD, so the hardware in the camera would need to be changed. I am pretty sure this is why SDHC hasn't been offered as a firmware enhancement already - one would have thought that it would have been an easy thing to do, if it were easy (if you see what I mean)

 

 

Lecia wrote in the june FAQ's that only a firmware upgrade is required for SDHC...

[cbretteville]

They've claimed that all along that SDHC is just a FW upgrade. Guess now we'll see.

- Carl

[rosuna]

I'm stunned to read in the specs that they claim de M8 sensor is low-noise. In these days it certainly is not...

 

In practical terms, is not. I think this is the key variable that erodes the competitiveness of the M8. It is a reportage camera, and noise at high ISOs and battery drain are very important for this kind of equipment. Kaufmann said the "Leica way" for low-light photography was superfast lenses, but it is quite unreasonable (price, size, DoF). Current DSLR cameras with CMOS and stabilized sensors are miles ahead of the M8 in available light reportage photography. CMOS are noisier in theory, but in practice they analize and reduce noise just at the sensor level, and the results are incredible (even the Canon 450D or the Nikon D300 have impressive high ISO performance). The M8 follows the medium format philosophy: based on CCDs for superb image quality at low ISO values. That is good for studio cameras (like the new MF Leica reflex system), but it is not so good for reportage cameras. Maybe Leica and Kodak should see the possibility of new CMOS-based electronics for the M system. Anyway, the new M8.2 brings a new firmware, and it is likely to see an improvement in noise at high ISO values... Wait and see...

[wlaidlaw]

That's a little vague...I wonder by"additional" do they mean front-of-the-lens, or on the sensor itself? If it no longer needs front filters, that's a biggie. Otherwise, for my uses I see no advantage in dumping mine for the 8.2. I also wonder if there will still be the upgrade available on the 8.0 or has that been axed. Ditto to any firmware upgrades for 8.0 that might make some of the 8.2 features available.

 

I have been in contact with Solms service today to ask if I could leave my M8 with them at Photokina or on my way past Solms on the 26th of this month, for the sapphire glass and the electronic upgrade (mine is a very early M8 - #302). The answer was no - the upgrade has to be booked through your local dealer after the end of September. So, it looks as if it is still going ahead. It is just not very convenient for me and a bit customer unresponsive that I cannot leave it in Solms.

 

It means in my case that I will take it to H.A.Baker in Lewes, UK, when I get back there after Photokina. They will send it to Leica UK, who will in turn, send it to Solms. After the upgrade, it will have to do the whole journey in reverse. With a large slice of luck, I should have it back by Christmas.

 

Wilson

[andybarton]

From a purely selfish point of view, I sincerely hope that alll these perfectly good M8s going back merely for an upgrade, do not impact on the servicing of my R8, which actually NEEDS fixing...

 

I would be extremely annoyed if M upgrades were to be given priority over proper service items.

[sean_reid]

Sean - while you're around - are you able to indicate if you will be formally reviewing whatever changes might be coming along? CLEARLY this doesn't imply any confirm / deny on the present rumour - simply that it would be great if someone with no axe to grind is likely to be getting an early opportunity to comment before the rest of us decide what to do with our money. Your comments on the new shutter were already very helpful - and have made me think that I'll go that way with at least one body. Great if you're also going to be able to do us the same service on whatever emerges after September 15.

 

Best

 

Hi Chris,

 

I can't even give a date right now as to when I might be able to discuss any potential changes/additions to Leica's offerings. As soon as I can make comments, I certainly will.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

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[sean_reid]

Sean,

 

I had always thought it should be possible to increase signal to noise by down-sampling high iso images, but my simple attempts using bicubic in photoshop never seemed to help very much. How are you resampling to achieve the result?

 

Thanks.

 

David

 

It depends on the file. For the D700 article I'm finishing up, I downsampled the 1Ds Mk III file simply using straight bicubic. Your theory is correct for many files.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean