M8.2

[jaapv]

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Well said Chris and really the whole bottom line from the DMR and the M8 was and is about quality. Trust me it is the closet you can get to MF digital quality. I know I own MF now and it is outstanding. Folks should be thrilled they can get that close to it in a Leica digital camera and I agree it is a liberating tool but folks also need to know it's limits and be able to work within those limits and not make it something it is not. But it certainly is a fun tool to have be it as a hobbyist or on a Pro level which i shot the M8 for over a year at the pro level and it did the job.

 

Oh I like to stop by when you guy's are not in the middle of a war zone. LOL Let's see what Photokinia brings and we all will have a lot to chat about. I'm still looking for something big on that, I don't feel this M.2 is it .Something else because my money pocket is starting to tremble. . ROTFLMAO

I'm looking for your next 1298 posts here when the R10 hits the shops in March 2009, Guy

[Guest guy_mancuso]

I'll just be happy if Leica can stay afloat long enough to produce an M9. Looks to me like the M8.2 is merely something to hold us over while they are busy cooking up the next generation of M. Personally, I'm very pleased with my M8. I have been able to capture street images that would have been very difficult with my Mamiya 7 given it's slow lenses and large form factor.

 

As an aside, I see so many "photographers" out there with Nikon and Canon straps, it's refreshing to shoot with Leica just to be different from the bloody masses

 

If anyone ever sees me with a strap that says Nikon or Canon in big bold letters like they give you in the box just shoot me and not with your camera please.

 

Most hideous straps i have ever seen. Okay I even got one that says Phase One and for 22k you would think it would at least be leather. LOL

 

They all must have went to the same marketing class

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[Guest guy_mancuso]

I'm looking for your next 1298 posts here when the R10 hits the shops in March 2009, Guy

 

I'm worried there may not be a R10. My crystal ball says Jenoptik as a key word. You know they make Sinar and Sinar makes MF camera's and backs, which i could never afford . LOL

But Leica making lenses for MF. Lot's of floating rumors and Nikon with MF 48mpx sensor i heard today. Geez i may need a new ski mask and a new bank to visit.

[Photoskeptic]

If anyone ever sees me with a strap that says Nikon or Canon in big bold letters like they give you in the box just shoot me and not with your camera please.

 

Most hideous straps i have ever seen. Okay I even got one that says Phase One and for 22k you would think it would at least be leather. LOL

 

They all must have went to the same marketing class

 

Boy, have you got that right!! More shameless merchandizing. You (if you use one) are paying to advertise for them. Neat trick.

[jaapv]

I'm worried there may not be a R10. My crystal ball says Jenoptik as a key word. You know they make Sinar and Sinar makes MF camera's and backs, which i could never afford . LOL

But Leica making lenses for MF. Lot's of floating rumors and Nikon with MF 48mpx sensor i heard today. Geez i may need a new ski mask and a new bank to visit.

If I were Leica I would build the R10 according to speculation and call it the S2. And then upgrade/rebadge/R-mount one of the many bodies around, plonk in the best 24x36 sensor Kodak can provide and call it the R10. Built in Japan/China by who knows. Pentax? Just finish it cosmetically in Solms.

[jrc]

That for me, is the ultimate frustration of the M8.

 

It's billed as a reportage camera but ultimately fails in the role due to noise at high ISO. Once you have been spoiled by a Nikon D3, the Leica noise performance at ISO 1250 and up is just unacceptable. Even if the Nikon sharpness is not quite as good as the M8, even if the colour fidelity is not as true, the D3 is the better camera in my hands because more images are free of noise and camera shake.

 

What wouldn't I give to have a Leica FF camera with the D3's noise performance in an M8 (m6/m7 even better) form factor!

 

<snip>

 

By the way it was 'LeicaWorld News' 02/2006 - announcing Leica's digital lineup. Under M8

applications of use 'Travel/Repotage' 'Low light photography' and 'Fine Art Photography'

 

This newsletter was the fundamental reason for my purchase of the M8.

 

PeterP

 

 

In thinking about exactly what a Leica is -- and this may sound moronic -- I've concluded that it's simply a Leica camera. If you like Leica cameras, then, get an M8. But it is not nearly the best reportage camera -- there are many that are better, and not much bigger, either, like the weather-sealed Pentax 20D with its brilliant pancake lenses and selection of zoom and heritage lenses. For reportage (assuming reportage is to be published) you simply do not need maximum sharpness; you need maximum flexibility. The Leica is probably the least flexible top-end camera out there. If you're reporting, get a Canon or a Nikon.

 

The same is generally true of a travel camera. Really, a Pentax 20D is almost as small, and as a system, is probably lighter, if you take along three or four pancake lenses versus Leica lenses. You could also take along a long zoom...

 

For low light, the Leica is probably the worst-performing of the current top-end 35mm-style cameras. The technology has simply moved on in the other cameras. In 2006, the Leica could keep up because of the fast lens system. No more; the usable ISOs on the competition have just gotten too high. The ultra-fast lenses compensate somewhat, but not for all uses -- for example, anytime you want to shoot in low light with a little depth of field. I was shooting D3 at the Republican National Convention this week, at night, at 6400, and that ISO gave me some DOF to work with.

 

As for fine art, fine art is what it is, and the specs for a fine art camera, for some people, may make a Leica a top choice. I am one of Imants fans (not necessarily of his postings, but of his photographs) and a Leica may be *the* camera for his peculiar style. But I'd say, that's true only for a small group of people like him. Others would do better with, say, a D300 or a 5D. (And they could get two or three cameras for the price.)

 

So, Leicas are basically like classic old Ferraris. If you like old Ferraris, God bless you; but you could get a new modern Porsche for a fraction of the price, and run the legs off the Ferrari. But if you like Ferraris, you put up with the problems.

 

Looking for one word to express it, I'd say that for most people, the Leica is a high-functioning, elegant...toy.

 

JC

[AlanG]

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... From a marketing and commercial point of view they should sell to professionals at cost or even provide gear free.

 

Please start a movement for this!!!

 

By the way, we pros are very influential. I was on a ski trip a couple of weeks ago and took some snapshots with a little Canon p&s. Another guy on the trip had a little Nikon. We put our photos on a computer and after seeing mine he said he'd have to buy a Canon. It must be the camera of course ;-)

[PeterP]

Please start a movement for this!!!

 

By the way, we pros are very influential. I was on a ski trip a couple of weeks ago and took some snapshots with a little Canon p&s. Another guy on the trip had a little Nikon. We put our photos on a computer and after seeing mine he said he'd have to buy a Canon. It must be the camera of course ;-)

 

 

I know how you feel . I colleague of mine upon seeing some large (16x24) Epson prints exclaimed (about my Leica)

"I just have to get that camera - it takes such great pictures"

Thanks pal - no input on my part.

 

PeterP

[Guest guy_mancuso]

There are far more lawyers,doctors, etc. than professional photographers. Often more affluent too ( without any negative implication intended). Leica needs the professionals to lead the pack and to attract the customers, not to buy the cameras. From a marketing and commercial point of view they should sell to professionals at cost or even provide gear free.

 

Man do I luv ya. Right on brother:)

[Guest stnami]

The open ended tourist visa to Solms Germany is it's biggest downfall at this stage

[erl]

I think we have strayed off topic here, but so what!

 

Recently, at a dinner party the hostess complimented me on my photography (specifically, pics of her son) and then remarked, "you must have a really good camera!" I bit my tongue (must have had an intuition of what was coming;) )

 

Later the same evening when she served dessert, I remarked "what a wonderful dessert, you must have a very good oven."

She did have the good grace to acknowledge the import of the comparison and remains a good friend.

[xrogers]

I find ISOs through 400 on the M8 superior to my Canon 5D (and what I've seen of the D700). I even prefer Leica's ISO 640 (while noisier, it doesn't need the unsharp masking the Canon does, but I certainly don't expect that others need to agree with me...).

 

That said, for someone whose job requires bringing home decently sharp photos in sometimes poor light, a usable ISO 6400 coupled with even moderately accurate fast AF would be a clearly better choice. I could shoot the RNC convention with an M8, but if my livelihood depended on it, I'd likely be using a D700 even if the M8 had the same sensor performance.

 

Nikon and Canon SLRs may already be good enough in low light that it doesn't matter if some other camera is better. I hope the Leica gets better at high ISO for the folks who need it, but I also hope it retains an edge at the low ISOs many of us use far more.

 

Until later,

 

Clyde

[giordano]

Boy, have you got that right!! More shameless merchandizing. You (if you use one) are paying to advertise for them. Neat trick.

 

That's why I use a Leica neoprene strap on my D200.<g>

[Vieri]

Give me some credit Vieri, it was a reference to the use of a tool for an activity, documentary/street .... photography, rather than another stupid repeat of the statement "it's the best digital rangefinder ..... gooey" around.

 

Some, maybe not you, need to see this as equipment that facilitates an art form, or an activity that would not be pursued if the kit was not user friendly.

 

Once we get over the reliability issues, I don't see it as one box with more ticks than another, but rather, can I take it with me, will it get images that I want ? I never wanted to shoot images in ridiculously low light situations with 12,000iso @ 1/8000s. Some might, and some want a camera with movements, or an underwater capability. Those boxes exist, but they won't fit in your shirt pocket.

 

Well, you just said that after the fixes and last rumors/news the M8 is "class leader" hence my comment. I truly hope there will be competition in that class, and I truly hope Zeiss or maybe CV will develop a M-mount DRF to compete with the M8, competition will benefit everyone, but mostly us photographers. I don't want or need to use ISO 12.000 @ 1/8000, but for my concert work I regularly use my D3 @ ISO 3200-6400 with shutter speeds around 1/60 - 1/125; I cannot use the M8 for that, though I tried (the results were at best near-ok in terms of IQ @ ISO 1250, surely unusable in color but that would have been fine - however, the camera was too slow in writing files and had me waiting and lose shots) so I rather use my MPs loaded with Neopan 1600 @ 1600. The kit, for a big part of my work, is - as you said - NOT user friendly as it is; for other parts, it works great; as all tools. However, my decision is to use DSLR for digital work, and keep my film Ms instead so my 2 M8s are for sale now, waiting for the next digital M. And the M8.2 doesn't look to be it so far (assuming it really exists).

 

Not if the competition (Zeiss) wishes to compete but claims "the technology for the (ff) camera we want to make is not yet there".

 

I sure hope they will manage to get the technology to be where it needs to be so we can have some healthy competition in the DRF arena. Nikon used to say the same about FF, "we'll do it when we'll be ready" and then came the D3 - now, if Zeiss is following the same path and their RF will be as good in the M-mount camp as the D3 is in the DSRL camp, I will be a very happy camper

[marknorton]

We all remember the sound of dropping Leica jaws hitting the floor when the R-D1 was announced at Photokina 2004 and, whatever we may think of the camera (not bad, actually) and whatever we may think of Epson's commitment to and support of the product (very poor), that camera did us all a favour by stirring Leica out of their "nicht moeglich" lethargy.

 

Might we see the same again? A Zeiss FF DRF to take on the M8.2? Sounds unlikely at first glance, Zeiss are not really a camera company. Nikon? Doubt it. They have their hands full, not just with Canon but Sony, Samsung, Pentax and all the rest.

 

Some competition would be helpful though to keep our friends from Solms on their toes.

[andybarton]

... now, if Zeiss is following the same path and their RF will be as good in the M-mount camp as the D3 is in the DSRL camp, I will be a very happy camper

 

Have Zeiss managed to make a film M-mount camera that's as good as a Leica one?

[robsteve]

Have Zeiss managed to make a film M-mount camera that's as good as a Leica one?

 

No.

[andybarton]

I rest my case. M'Lud.

[okram]

Well it does not say at specs, but I sure hope that wakeup (from sleep) time for this camera will shorten- it needs to be inexistant, like all pro cameras...

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Ecar]

.

Looking for one word to express it, I'd say that for most people, the Leica is a high-functioning, elegant...toy.

 

Well, using the M8 certainly has a childish pleasure component to it;) and may not be the best tool for many pro jobs.

 

However, I also believe the camera's limitations somehow force you to take less and better pictures.

 

Here's my own (recent and highly subjective) experience:

- I have uploaded roughly 300 pictures on Flickr

- of these, only about 10% were taken with the M8, the rest with Canon DSLRs and other gear (notably Ricoh GX100)

- as of today, according to Flickr's (obscure) "interestingness" algorithm, all of my 6 most "interesting" photos were taken with the M8...

 

Of course, this is by no means a scientific observation - and I must say that I believe some of my non-M8 pictures are underrated by Flickr - but it made my think.

I wonder if someone else had a similar experience with Flickr.