how to create "film grain" in digital pictures?

[Hartmut-2]

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Hello everyone,

I'm pretty new in this forum ... I bought my first Leica (M8) in July this year. Meanwhile I read some of your contributions and a lot of this was really helpfull for me to get started. I saw as well a lot of pictures in the meantime that show an "anlogues look" by having more or less grain ( no noise! ). Is there a way to calculate such grain with Capture One into the pictures or is this only possible with Photoshop? If yes, who can suggest a way to get this done?

I'd prefer not to use Photoshop - this is something personal obviously - I do not really like this software - I simply do not understand how it works and the user interface is not really intuitive for me. If someone could suggest me somthing else I' really appreciate it ... but to be honest - finally the quality of the result counts for me .... If a good look is only possible with Photoshop ,,,, I will use it. But to invest so much money just for this one task ? I only have an older version of Photoshop elements ( version 2) - no CS2 or CS3.

 

Thanks in advance for any suggestions. !

 

 

Regards Hartmut

[andybarton]

IMHO, you cannot create film grain in digital photographs.

 

You can get close, by using software such as Alien Skin Exposure, but it's not the same as using film. And never will be.

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[jaapv]

Photoshop is difficult, I'll grant you. But if you start off with Elements, and buy a Scott Kelby book to go with it, you will be all right. Capture One is really just a RAW converter and not really a darkroom tool. You are missing out on the potential of the great camera you have.

I would stay away from CS3 to start with. It is too much.

Others find Lightroom an excellent tool for postprocessing. I cannot speak to that. It does not mesh with my mind.

 

Here is an example of an "analogue style" photograph with the M8, using the Alien Skin Photoshop plugin.

 

[zlatkob]

Using Photoshop Elements 2, which you already have, you can get something like film grain using the Noise filter. It's not the same, but may be close enough without investing in Photoshop CS3.

 

Open your image in the Elements and size it for printing; for example, 8x12 inches at 300 pixels per inch. Then click on the Filter menu, then Noise, then Add Noise, then choose a setting like 6%, uniform, monochromatic (adjust to taste).

 

More sophisticated options (for Photoshop) include:

- Ascough Actions

- Totally Rad Actions

- Kubota Artistic Tools

- Das Bosun's Film & Grain Fx Simulator (free at Adobe Exchange)

but you will need some familiarity with Photoshop to use these actions.

[martinb]

I both shoot film and scan and add noise/grain or whatever you want to call it to digital images. If people didn't know I don't think that they could tell the images apart, both showing the full image and 100% crops. In some cases I even prefer to add digital grain because I can make it to my own preference and not what a film manufacturer wants me to do.

[rwchisholm]

I actually like the pattern of "noise" that you get when shooting at higher ISO values.

 

I shot this at iso 640 and printed at 13x19 at dpi 240 it looks very film-like. -Rob

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[GarethC]

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The problem I have with any "grain" that makes the photo look more analogue like is that as soon as you print it, it looks like digitally created grain.

 

The irony is that the analogue grainy look looks best when viewed digitally on a monitor. go figure.

 

My favourite is the Jeff Anscough series of actions. I'm not sure there is a great solution though.

[martinb]

Beautiful! I don't think about grain, format, digital or film or nothing else when I see work like this..

[RSL]

Photoshop is difficult, I'll grant you. But if you start off with Elements, and buy a Scott Kelby book to go with it, you will be all right. Capture One is really just a RAW converter and not really a darkroom tool. You are missing out on the potential of the great camera you have.

I would stay away from CS3 to start with. It is too much.

Others find Lightroom an excellent tool for postprocessing. I cannot speak to that. It does not mesh with my mind.

 

Here is an example of an "analogue style" photograph with the M8, using the Alien Skin Photoshop plugin.

 

 

Another copy of Jaap's excellent example of a grayscale conversion. I agree with him. You'd be better off staying away from CS3. No matter how far you go in your photography you may never need that much power -- unless you're doing prepress work.

 

One of the best combinations around is Lightroom 2 (in spite of Jaap's meshing problem) and Photoshop Elements 6. The combination is way below the price of CS3, yet the "Develop" tools in Lightroom 2 are excellent and they'll let you make very good grayscale conversions. You can do almost everything with Lightroom you can do with Adobe Camera Raw and a few things ACR can't do.

 

Elements will do the grayscale conversion too, though perhaps not as elegantly, and it'll let you add noise. The problem I have with using CS3 to produce noise (I don't have Elements, but it works the same way) is that the noise gets uniformly distributed throughought the picture, and that's not really the way film noise looks. I finally added Nik's Sliver EFEX Pro plugin for grayscale conversions. It's expensive, but it has two advantages over everything else I've tried: (1) it analyzes the file and distributes the noise in very much the same way film noise is distributed, and (2) It handles mid-range detail and brightnesses exceptionally well. Silver EFEX also lets you specify the size and sharpness of the noise. Alien Skin may do that too, but I haven't used it.

 

Hartmut-2, You sound as if you really love black and white. So do I. That's why I was willing to spring for Silver EFEX Pro after trying it for 15 days. The results I get are worth the price.

[cbretteville]

Scanned film frames work too, a lot cheaper than Exposure or SilverFX. I've tried these and like the results.

 

Real film grain files! (Photography Tutorials) · street photography New York in black and white : urban views · New York photographs by Markus Hartel

 

He's got a couple of good tutorials on line, his site is well worth a visit.

 

Cheers,

- Carl

[chris_tribble]

Thanks to zlatkob for this tip!

 

- Das Bosun's Film & Grain Fx Simulator (free at Adobe Exchange)

 

Just downloaded the actions to use in CS3 and they're subtle and effective. Used judiciously they give a lot of control. Before and After below... After processed using the Film Grain 800 iso action. Always difficult to evaluate these on small JPEGS, but the effect on print at A3 is very pleasing...

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[Nitnaros]

"Grain" is easy to create, obviously, by using high-ISO.

 

"Film grain", yes you need software simulation to do that.

 

I think the best first step is to understand and exploit the type of grain you get from your camera's noise behavior.

 

Here is an ISO-2500 shot from the M8.

 

Peter

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[ndjambrose]

The problem with ISO 2500 shots is the horrendous banding visible in most examples. The distribution of noise is perfectly acceptable, but the banding is not. And once printed, in many cases it can look as though the print has been scratched or damaged.

 

The best digital grain solution is Alien Skin. It costs the most, but there's a reason for that. One of the things that makes it interesting is it's non-uniform. It alters the density of grain according to the tones of the image, and the size of the grain according to output format, and the shape of the grain according to the emulsion you wish to simulate. In other words, it obeys the behaviour of real grain.

 

Last year I produced a series of large prints for an exhibition. Some were made with Alien Skin, and some with real film. Once printed there was no discernible difference.

[vanhulsenbeek]

The best digital grain solution is Alien Skin. It costs the most, but there's a reason for that. One of the things that makes it interesting is it's non-uniform. It alters the density of grain according to the tones of the image, and the size of the grain according to output format, and the shape of the grain according to the emulsion you wish to simulate. In other words, it obeys the behaviour of real grain

 

Could please post some examples/crops? Thanks!

[ndjambrose]

Could please post some examples/crops? Thanks!

 

Don't take my word for it. Far better to download a free 30 day trial and test it for yourself.

 

Alien Skin Software: Exposure

[jaapv]

The problem with ISO 2500 shots is the horrendous banding visible in most examples. The distribution of noise is perfectly acceptable, but the banding is not. And once printed, in many cases it can look as though the print has been scratched or damaged.

 

The best digital grain solution is Alien Skin. It costs the most, but there's a reason for that. One of the things that makes it interesting is it's non-uniform. It alters the density of grain according to the tones of the image, and the size of the grain according to output format, and the shape of the grain according to the emulsion you wish to simulate. In other words, it obeys the behaviour of real grain.

 

Last year I produced a series of large prints for an exhibition. Some were made with Alien Skin, and some with real film. Once printed there was no discernible difference.

 

Banding??? Do you happen to have a non-upgraded 2006 camera?

As an example, Peter's image has no banding at all.

[Guest noah_addis]

Sorry that I'm not going to give you a constructive answer to your question, but I do have a few thoughts on this issue.

 

First of all, to invest in a serious a digital camera and not invest the time and money to learn photoshop is a bit strange. C1 is great but as others have mentioned, it is primarily a raw converter and does not have extensive digital darkroom capabilities.

 

More to the point, I'm not sure if I understand the fascination with duplicating film grain. I do documentary work and don't wish to get too mucked up in conceptual talk, but I do feel like the process involved in making a photograph is important and should be reflected in the final work.

 

There's nothing wrong with adding 'film' grain or digital noise to digital photographs, but I feel like if you want the look of film grain you should shoot with a small-format film. A characteristic of digital capture is a grainless, almost large-format look, so why not appreciate the inherent look of the medium instead of trying to make it look like something else?

 

I realize film isn't practical for everyone and I guess I'm a bit of a purist, but if I want that 'film' look I'll shoot tri-x. When I shoot digital, I like the grainless look, it's kind of like shooting a larger format.

 

Rob's beautiful portrait is a good example, he used the native characteristics of the camera to produce great results.

[ndjambrose]

Banding??? Do you happen to have a non-upgraded 2006 camera?

As an example, Peter's image has no banding at all.

 

Have you got a profiled monitor? I can see banding in the above image perfectly clearly.

[Nitnaros]

I am the same opinion as ndjambrose regarding ISO-2500.

 

I have no heartburn with digital grain, but the M8 produces bad banding for ISO-2500 ... most of the time, unfortunately. My image above was shot in good day light at ISO-2500, so there is plenty of noise, but no banding. If I shoot at low light at ISO-2500, you bet there is excessive banding. And that ruins the shots for me.

 

If anybody knows a way to get rid of the banding - please tell me.

 

In general I am with Noah - embrace the capture medium, don't spend too much efforts in mimicking other cameras. If I want lots of noise, I load my Mamiya-7 with TMAX-3200...

 

Peter

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[jaapv]

Have you got a profiled monitor? I can see banding in the above image perfectly clearly.

 

I'm on a laptop here. I'll have a proper look at home tonight.