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biglouis

So why are so many people selling their M8s?

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After inadvertently starting this thread on my own misunderstanding, I have to say it has had some interesting responses.

 

LouisB

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quality images certainly require many skills of the photographer. but they also require image quality from the photographic system. and that is where the modern DSLR's deliver. i wish the m8 did that too in the same extent.

peter

 

The M8 produces better images than any of the film Ms I've ever used, at all ISOs. I can produce excellent A2 prints. Personally that's good enough for me.

 

If 'quality' was so important we'd all have been shooting medium format rather than 35mm. We weren't. There's a reason for that.

 

In absolute terms the latest generation of DSLRs may produce better results at high ISOs. But so what? How many times did people shoot Delta 3200? Very few, and yet the ability to shoot clean shots at high ISOs seems to have become some king of touchstone these days.

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I love my M8 because it is a RF and it does its job fine, at least for me, an amateur photographer/hobbyist. Any other cameras would not make much differences in results unless the person behind the camera changes:o

 

True and fine is enough. Perfect does not exist, and no machine turns out a perfect work of art. It's the maker who does that.

 

Perhaps, those who are selling their M8 are scared from reading sooo many negative threads about it on this forum...!

 

Well, good riddance to them, and - unless they are only selling their backup - I hope they leave the forum too. Anyone who bases such choices just on subjective opinions should reconsider their way of life!

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quality images certainly require many skills of the photographer. but they also require image quality from the photographic system. and that is where the modern DSLR's deliver. i wish the m8 did that too in the same extent.

peter

 

now this makes me wonder, how people could take good photographs (also in good image quality, whatever that means) before those modern dslrs arrived this planet.

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Guest stnami
Anyone who bases such choices just on subjective opinions should reconsider their way of life!
...that's a bit of a subjective stance, where is the objectivity in that statement?

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...that's a bit of a subjective stance, where is the objectivity in that statement?

 

True! What about changing what I said to "objective opinions". Oh eeee... Oeps:eek:

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now this makes me wonder, how people could take good photographs (also in good image quality, whatever that means) before those modern dslrs arrived this planet.

 

Makes one think indeed. How were all those world wonders designed and made ( e.g. St Peters in Rome, Versailles, Machu Picchu, Taj Mahal etc) without Computer Aided Design:confused:

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I wonder how many M8's were sold in contrast to say a 5D.

By the way, I own both and the 5D makes me lazy and therefore the pictures turn out to be less interesting. Perhaps its down to using a zoom or the AF?

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I spent about half an hour with the D700 at my local dealer. No way would I get one; the thing is huge.

 

Yeah, it is big...

 

I don't understand why manufacturers insist on making these cameras so big.

I think some of it may have to do with pleasing the whims of the 'fanboys' in the marketplace. Big = impressive and pro.

 

I yearn for a full frame DSLR the size of an SL...

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The M8 produces better images than any of the film Ms I've ever used, at all ISOs. I can produce excellent A2 prints. Personally that's good enough for me.

 

You are correct with the exception of dynamic range. Film negative still beats digital in this case.

 

If 'quality' was so important we'd all have been shooting medium format rather than 35mm. We weren't. There's a reason for that.

In absolute terms the latest generation of DSLRs may produce better results at high ISOs. But so what? How many times did people shoot Delta 3200? Very few, and yet the ability to shoot clean shots at high ISOs seems to have become some king of touchstone these days.

 

I shoot a lot of Delta3200 and quite like it.... ;-)

 

It's not so much the high ISO noise in the M8 that bothers me. It's the inaccuracy of the framelines compared to an analog M, the reliability issues and high price tag that turned me off.

 

But I am very much looking forward to what Leica will show at Photokina. Hopefully there will be a CL-D or improved M8.

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Yeah, it is big...

 

I don't understand why manufacturers insist on making these cameras so big.

I think some of it may have to do with pleasing the whims of the 'fanboys' in the marketplace. Big = impressive and pro.

 

I yearn for a full frame DSLR the size of an SL...

 

Actually, I had thought about possibly getting an Olympus 520, the new 'smallest DSLR' which is also 4/3rds compatible for exactly the reason you state - a DSLR which is a manageable size. I thought it might make a good walkaround camera for times I don't necessarily want to walk around with the M8 (like some of my early morning shoots on the way to work). It looks like a lovely little camera and there is always the possibility of putting a Panaleica zoom on it. And it shoots RAW.

 

Mind you, if I was going to go big, I'd go the whole hog and get an extension on my mortgage and a 1DsMkIII:)

 

LouisB

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You are correct with the exception of dynamic range. Film negative still beats digital in this case.

 

I think you are mistaken.

 

 

It's the inaccuracy of the framelines compared to an analog M, the reliability issues and high price tag that turned me off.

 

The Film M framelines are just as inaccurate as the M8. They are just different and you don't notice the inaccuracy because it take 1 hour to 1 week, or longer, before you can view the negative/positive from film so you forget just where you framed.

If the price of the M8 turns you off then the price of any Leica would of done the same for years and years. So you don't own any Leica's? So why are you on the Leica M8 forum spewing bile.

 

But I am very much looking forward to what Leica will show at Photokina. Hopefully there will be a CL-D or improved M8.

 

Why, you will find fault with whatever they are offering then come hear to tell everyone that has bought one of these new products they've made a big mistake and you are the only one that knows best.

 

Have A Nice Day.

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...sometimes this M8 discussions remind me of the motto of the CIA: We can do no wrong!

If that is what you truely think then leave the forum and never set foot in it again. Then you don't have to read opinions that are different then your own.

 

The M8 is still the BEST DIGITAL RANGEFINDER in production today.

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Guest stnami
If that is what you truely think then leave the forum and never set foot in it again

nasty little critter that shootie guy:D

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I'm glad I have extensive experience of photography from pre-internet forum days. I used to shoot jazz at ISO 1000, and I used to darkroom print other work for exhibitions on 20"x16" paper. The impression given by so much internet chatter is that everyone is making enormous prints from extreme ISO files; when of course they are not.

 

What really is doolally about a lot of 'file analysis' is that obsessively examining a file close-up at more than 16 times the size of a print output [for example 72 PPI screen resolution against 300 DPI print resolution] doesn't really tell us a lot. Neither does micro dissection of file noise when a fine printer would likely add noise before final print output to give the illusion of greater image definition, or the strange pronouncements on file qualities seen in internet J-pegs with irrelevant sharpening viewed in an alien Colour Space on a monitor with it's own image degrading 'qualities'. [Rather like judging a film photograph by examining the negative's grain with a microscope].

 

I know the files from my M8 are capable of prints up to 40" wide, that's an extremely large museum size print by the time you add in the mount, and frame. When the hell am I routinely going to print that large? When I win the lottery, or get adopted by rich folk.

 

The files from M8, D3, D300, 1DS3, 5D etc., are far too much for most users; but there again so is the ancient 6Mpx Nikon D70. Those who really need the file and function of top equipment know who they are and why their file delivery is genuinely required. But I can't help thinking that a lot of camera brand jumping is done by people with more money than talent; and the internet manically drives the frenzy.

 

For the record; my M8 was for sale - but only because the wolves were howling outside my door. I'm still hanging on to it, and it is delivering more than I can currently print. The body, functionality, and 'M' design legacy however; now that's a different story .............

 

................. Chris

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For the record; my M8 was for sale - but only because the wolves were howling outside my door. I'm still hanging on to it, and it is delivering more than I can currently print. The body, functionality, and 'M' design legacy however; now that's a different story .............

 

................. Chris

So Chris you tried to sell your M8 and there was no takers? Or just not at the price you had it listed for?

I've thought about selling one of mine but in the end I always changed my mind.

I did sell the Canon G9 I bought this year because I just never used it much and when I did it the files just weren't M8 files. I used it for Jpg only after looking at the Raw files from it.

I've thought about the D700 but since I sold all my Nikon glass, along with my D200, that's not an option and just like the D200 it would probably sit in a bag never being used.

 

Imants just when are you going to lighten up. I know you are trying to pick a fight and I am walking away.

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If that is what you truely think then leave the forum and never set foot in it again. Then you don't have to read opinions that are different then your own.

 

The M8 is still the BEST DIGITAL RANGEFINDER in production today.

 

thanks for the recommendation Admin

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now this makes me wonder, how people could take good photographs (also in good image quality, whatever that means) before those modern dslrs arrived this planet.

 

it depends on the definition of 'good image quality'. of course everyone is entitled to his own. and standards keep changing with new technology.

peter.

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it depends on the definition of 'good image quality'. of course everyone is entitled to his own. and standards keep changing with new technology.

Well, which way is it? First you claimed that DSLR only recently began to meet the requirements for “quality images”, however defined:

 

quality images certainly require many skills of the photographer. but they also require image quality from the photographic system. and that is where the modern DSLR's deliver.

And now it’s those cameras setting higher quality standards, rather than the other way round? Just to explain why 20th century prints from the likes of Cartier-Bresson are still worthy of adorning museum walls, even when they often do not meet the stringent quality requirements used to dismiss high ISO images taken with the M8?

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