fingerprinz Posted August 16, 2008 Share #21 Posted August 16, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) Well, I am about to purchase a M8 to complement my M7 and its lenses. But thanks to this forum, I wait until Photokina to see what the beauty's old/new name will be. Looks likely I am not the only one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 16, 2008 Posted August 16, 2008 Hi fingerprinz, Take a look here Leica Camera Sales Down 38%. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
veraikon Posted August 16, 2008 Share #22 Posted August 16, 2008 Andy, where on Earth do you get that gem of information from? They only employ 1,000 people in total, or thereabouts... 969 - but Andy is right on SKLs time there was a remarkable loss from people in the R&D department. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
likea Posted August 16, 2008 Share #23 Posted August 16, 2008 A good investment would be learning when and when not to use apostrophes! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Edwards Posted August 16, 2008 Share #24 Posted August 16, 2008 LOL, Mercedes-Benz established an assembly plant for the M-class in Alabama and it was a disaster. BMW did the same for the Z3 sports car in South Carolina and it was a disaster too. Daimler merged with Chrysler and, guess what, it was a disaster. I don't think a US Leica plant makes any sense at all... ...tell that to zeiss who maintained its us market share (and profitability) in the sports optics field by establishing a us plant around 8 years ago...with the continuing collapse of the usd and the corollary increase in all things euro since 2001, us sports optics maker leupold increased its domination of the us market until zeiss opened its us plant...us assembly of german components, glass included...this enabled zeiss to steadily increase its us market share and remain competitive... ...and on the automotive market which bears little relation to the photographic market in terms of the capital intensive nature of the required fixed assets...yes, and the highly successful (until this year) x5 is also manufactured at bmw's spartanburg plant and contributed to bmw's record profits (again, until this year)... ...merely thoughts on ways to assist in leica's survival...and imho as always... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted August 16, 2008 Share #25 Posted August 16, 2008 I suppose Leica could always establish a plant in that shamelessly abandoned industrial wasteland of Detroit. I was shocked when I visited. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Edwards Posted August 16, 2008 Share #26 Posted August 16, 2008 I suppose Leica could always establish a plant in that shamelessly abandoned industrial wasteland of Detroit. I was shocked when I visited. ...yes, indeed, and leica could choose from between 3 soon-to-be abandoned plants... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfgang Esslinger Posted August 16, 2008 Share #27 Posted August 16, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) ...tell that to zeiss who maintained its us market share (and profitability) in the sports optics field by establishing a us plant around 8 years ago...with the continuing collapse of the usd and the corollary increase in all things euro since 2001, us sports optics maker leupold increased its domination of the us market until zeiss opened its us plant...us assembly of german components, glass included...this enabled zeiss to steadily increase its us market share and remain competitive... ...and on the automotive market which bears little relation to the photographic market in terms of the capital intensive nature of the required fixed assets...yes, and the highly successful (until this year) x5 is also manufactured at bmw's spartanburg plant and contributed to bmw's record profits (again, until this year)... ...merely thoughts on ways to assist in leica's survival...and imho as always... This argument focuses on the cost side and thus price. In my opinion the issue is on the sales side, ie. to have a portfolio of competitive products which people really want. Therefore I am not surprised by the downturn (outdated compact cameras, no DSLR, etc) but hopeful for Photokina. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted August 16, 2008 Share #28 Posted August 16, 2008 Andy, where on Earth do you get that gem of information from? They only employ 1,000 people in total, or thereabouts... Apologies - R&D has grown by 100, not 1,000 I'd blame the iPhone, but many wouldn't believe me... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted August 16, 2008 Share #29 Posted August 16, 2008 Apologies - R&D has grown by 100, not 1,000 I'd blame the iPhone, but many wouldn't believe me... Tsk. I tol yeu too gt somtig withh a proopr keebordd... Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted August 16, 2008 Share #30 Posted August 16, 2008 Tsk. I tol yeu too gt somtig withh a proopr keebordd... Regards, Bill Truu Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 16, 2008 Share #31 Posted August 16, 2008 Hmmm... General motors has its own financing (GMAC) for auto buyers; maybe Leica should look in to doing that for Leica buyers. Not many imagemakers can fork over $7990US for an M7 or MP and a 50/1.4ASPH all on their own. Perhaps Leica could benefit from helping out actual photographers instead of catering to The Rich And Fabulous. Just a thought... Leica has been doing just that for decades - I haven't seen it around for a few years, maybe worth reinstating. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicanewbie Posted August 17, 2008 Share #32 Posted August 17, 2008 You can bet that all camera makers are feeling the squeeze, not just Leica. There's just less discretionary spend overall. If they're investing in R&D to improve the manufacturing process and drive efficiency, then that will help the bottom line, but the top line needs to be healthy as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
offshore Posted August 17, 2008 Share #33 Posted August 17, 2008 Oooohhhhh Nnnnnooooo! The sky is falling, the dam broke and Leica is going out of business...again! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted August 17, 2008 Share #34 Posted August 17, 2008 Read the full announcement and Leica are certainly pinning their hopes on "innovative product introductions at Photokina" to help them return to profitability. Aside from the introduction of the Summarits, there has been nothing new in the Leica photographic product range since 2006. It's no wonder their sales have fallen off a cliff. Photokina (IMHO) is held too infrequently so that there's this bumpy sales cycle as a result. People hold off buying in case there's something new and Leica compounded the problem with the bungled upgrade plan. Still, their R&D people muct have been doing something, so hopefully they have a few white rabbits to pull out of their hats. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuny Posted August 17, 2008 Share #35 Posted August 17, 2008 Leica plant in the US? Our labor costs are too high, and the analysts who seem to have it together think the dollar/euro relationship is reversing. We'll see. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym911 Posted August 17, 2008 Share #36 Posted August 17, 2008 any company that relies only on it's existing customer base for business will face such peaks and troughs in sales. Unless Leica capture new customers this scenario will repeat itself in 2 years time. Sustainable and profitable growth will only come when both time to market, and a broader product portfolio are dramatically improved. until this happens we should not be surprised at such results. andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
treeplanter Posted August 17, 2008 Share #37 Posted August 17, 2008 Leica plant in the US? Our labor costs are too high, and the analysts who seem to have it together think the dollar/euro relationship is reversing. We'll see. At least in regards to autos, the labor costs are higher in Germany than either the U.S. or Japan. Though I doubt this would prompt Leica to build a plant in the U.S. Jim B. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamhowa Posted August 17, 2008 Share #38 Posted August 17, 2008 The future of Leica is Leicasonic. No matter what any of us may think, the Panasonic partnership is really what keeps Leica an ongoing concern. Without the money and technology that is coming over from this partnership, I doubt Leica would even still be in business. Unfortunately, every camera Panasonic produces with a Leica lens under the Lumix brand is a diminution of the Leica brand. At best it is a partnership of desperation. This year's Photokina is quite possibly the last opportunity Leica has to be anything more than a supplier of optics. None of us really know what direction Leica will go, what we do know is that no company can afford to lose money on what it produces indefinitely. We can only hope that they make the right choice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
harrisfoto Posted August 17, 2008 Share #39 Posted August 17, 2008 It is interesting that Adorama and KEH seem to have very low inventory on Leica R lenses right now. Usually Adroama has more than one page on its website of used R Lenses. Now there are only 14 items. Lenses KEH at: KEH Camera: Leica R - Fixed Focal Lengths Could it be that even the used R lenses are being held off the market until after the new R camera announcements? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrid Posted August 17, 2008 Share #40 Posted August 17, 2008 My two cents: - Photokina is coming and people are holding off to see what Leica will introduce; be it a low cost CL-D, M8-2, R10 or whatever. I know I'm waiting till next month, before I decide what to buy. I'm really hoping that if there is a digital CL, that it's a winner. -Nikon D700 and Zeiss ZF glass. I shot with this setup last week and the image quality is a revelation. The sensor in the D3/D700 is in a whole different league. The Nikon is not as small as an M8, but it's not exactly a brick either. Imagine something a little bigger than an F100. Aside from the full frame sensor and IQ, what attracts me to the D700 is the ability to use manual focus lenses. I never did get along with AF and this is a dream come true. I can keep shooting like I'm using an SL or F, but instead of film, it's of course digital. The was one of the main reasons why my friend sold his M8 and got himself a D700... My Leica dealer sells both brands and says that ever since the D700 started to ship, his M8 bodies are gathering dust. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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