Leica no launch a new M8, thanks.

[Vieri]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

The shutter upgrade would be included in the new body, ISO setting could be achieved w/o mandatory chimping and you could use any M-mount lens w/o mandatory coding. Great no?

 

I'd say barely decent, not quite so great definitely not enough to be worth buying a new 5K+ body - not to me, anyway. If they'd offer a 1-to-1 exchange for the M8 plus a couple hundred bucks, maybe; otherwise, thanks but no thanks.

[AlanG]

Should Leica be more proactive and roll out new models on a faster schedule? Maybe in this digital age they should. But if Leica had just decided to start putting the quieter shutters in M8s and sapphire glass and called it the M8x or M8s, that would have satisfied the desire for a "new" model in much the same way as Canon and Nikon offer tweaks to their camera lines.

 

I have no idea what Leica's resources or abilities are. For all I know, they are trying to make a new digital M with all kinds of new features. Or maybe they are just minor improvements. It is hard to imagine that they would do nothing along these lines in all of the time since the M8 design was finalized.

 

As for the tweaks from Nikon and Canon, other than the Canon 1DIIN replacing the 1DII, most of the updates to the pro cameras have been pretty major. There sure have been a lot of changes between the D2X and the D3. And the Canon Mark III cameras have had almost every aspect changed and upgraded from the Mark II series.

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[the warrior]

Well, I said this before, and I repeat it now:

 

THANKS LEICA BY NOT LIKE THAT NIKON or CANON, and not make a new camera, or two, in each year.

 

Thank you Leica :D

 

M8 is the best, I know, I knew what when buy and what I know now.

[FastFashnReloaded]

I hate to break it to you but Nikon their homework this round, got an A+ and will continue to do so. Leica on the other hand did not and admitted to me personally that the M8 was "rushed" to market.

 

I just did a 5 hour shoot of lifestyle stock under starlight last night. Try that with an M8 and you will feel like wiping your rear afterwards because that is what you will have.

 

I take it you don't do this photo thing for a living.

 

I wonder if people have ever been less courteous in any era of this planet. Crude. Your arguments are crude and unsophisticated.

 

How typical.

[Guest DuquesneG]

Yes, by not coming up with any really substantial improvement in 2 years, Leica helps those of us with current M8s to feel warm and fuzzy inside. Kumbaya, my lord, Kum-ba-yaaaaaa:D

[AlanG]

I am not generally an early adopter. With the early M8 "teething" problems, I sat on the fence, certainly not feeling compelled to buy one.

 

In the time since the M8 came out, the US economy (especially the housing, financial, and mortgage sectors) has fallen off a cliff taking about 2/3rds of my annual income with it. My stock investments are down about 25%. Real estate that I have to sell in Hawaii to close out my brother's estate will likely be sold at a loss. Real estate I own is not looking so rosy either. This is not a time where I feel like rewarding myself with a new toy or to buy anything expensive unless I really need it.

 

I had been considering an M8 and was waiting to see if some of the issues that bothered me will be cleared up in a new model. So into this environment an M8.2 appears with some minor and useful improvements, but not exactly what I would like to see. And while other cameras are coming out at lower and lower prices, Leica increases prices.

 

So unless the economy makes a MAJOR turn-around, there is simply no way for me to buy one at this time. I am not sure who Leica is targeting but it isn't me as it simply wouldn't be prudent. By the way, I feel the same way about the 1DsIII.

[diogenis]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Alan, because Real estate is falling, and Lehman Bros filled for bankruptcy, that means that Dr. Kaufman should lower the prices of his products? It doesn't work like this

[AlanG]

Alan, because Real estate is falling, and Lehman Bros filled for bankruptcy, that means that Dr. Kaufman should lower the prices of his products? It doesn't work like this

 

That is a bit simplistic considering what I wrote. Other business are responding to the reality of the marketplace by lowering or holding down prices. Issues in the mortgage, financial, and housing sectors are spiraling through many aspects of the world's economy. And why not throw high energy prices into the mix?

 

I am sure the M8 is targeted at well heeled customers and not to working photographers who are so dependent on the health of the overall economy. So I assume that Leica is totally immune and can charge whatever they want. But in general, the first thing to go in a tight economy is discretionary spending.

 

However, if I were simply choosing between another diamond encrusted Rolex and an $11,000 lens, I would take the lens.

[thrid]

Leica thanks, not to launch a new camera every year.

 

Canon, Nikon users, etc., to pay money for novelty minimum and maximum disillusionment?

 

Nikon and Canon are on 18 or 36 month product cycles.

 

Not 12 months, except for the low end perhaps.

[lxlim]

......However, if I were simply choosing between another diamond encrusted Rolex and an $11,000 lens, I would take the lens.

 

both can be practical investments. I guess I know which you would feel more confidence in.

[fotografr]

While I don't agree with Alan on his assessment of the M8, I do completely agree with him about the imprudent nature of the astronomical price point Leica has now moved to. In my opinion, Leica blew it with the products just announced for Photokina this year. I was very hopeful they would introduce a lower priced CL type digital body that could be used as a backup to the M8. A camera like that might have also brought new M shooters into the digital rangefinder realm and would have certainly interested a lot of people who currently own just one M8. As it is, I believe they have priced out all but the very wealthy, who would buy Leica products at any cost. How many people are going to be interested in putting between $7500 and $10,000 into their first digital rangefinder system only to end up with a single body and one or two lenses?

[KM-25]

I wonder if people have ever been less courteous in any era of this planet. Crude. Your arguments are crude and unsophisticated.

 

How typical.

 

Do you want it sugar coated, why? It's the way it is....it would do Leica good to hear this.

 

I am not the only one who has posted this. Both Nikon and Canon have very little to do at this point to their cameras other than minor improvements for a pro to get top notch images at any speed reliably. Leica on the other hand, has a lot of work to do. But that is the injury, the insult is that Leica has now possibly priced it self well out of the reach of some of the most talented photographers on earth.

 

These photographers are documentary shooters who never frequent here but are usually found on Lightstalkers. They don't have pictures of doggies, kitties and birds on flicker, they are on assignment all over the world shooting the photos that keep the journalism and documentary field alive.

 

In June of this year, Leica was gracious enough to set up shop during the workshops so that participants could try out M8's of which there were several. Many of the people I talked to who used the M8 in those days didn't care for it much, went back to their D300, 5D or film M's. In nearly every circumstance, the workshop participants were engaged in the type of photography that Leica would normally excel in but chose other cameras.

 

I took Eugene Richards class. In the first day, I used my M8, after that, I put it away and did not use it for the rest of the class, shot black and white C-41 in my M6 from then on. The M8 was simply too loud.

 

I think the M8 is OK, a little overpriced for what I paid at $4,800. But now it is just ridiculous. So I debate on selling it and using my film M's as they are pretty much perfect in every way and just give up on Leica in the digital medium.

 

And as far as lenses go, I have what I need and want. Anything that needs an external finder I am not interested in so that choice is easy.

 

I am not sure who Leica is after as a customer these days, but it is not the really talented shooters it would seem. Instead, it seems to be collectors or wealthy hobby types who will clearly never use this gear to the fullest or with any kind of brilliant eye...and I think that is truly ashame.

 

Is this what it has come to, $10,000 for this?

http://www.popflash.com/images/products/secondary/13127.jpg

 

As much as I don't want this to happen, I think Leica is headed full steam the wrong direction and is going to be hurt by the combination of a not quite so perfect digital M and criminally high prices.

 

I just have a bad feeling about this new path...

[AlanG]

Alan, because Real estate is falling, and Lehman Bros filled for bankruptcy, that means that Dr. Kaufman should lower the prices of his products? It doesn't work like this

 

If only it was simply a decline in real estate and Lehman Brothers.

 

I think the way it works is if you look at your net worth and it is lower day by day, the consumer confidence goes down. If you have owned a significant amount of stocks for some time, then the decline is very easy to see.

 

I usually am an optimist but look at what has happened in the US very recently:

 

Countrywide Financial collapsing and being "saved" by Bank of America

Bear Sterns collapse

Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac collapse

Merrill Lynch shares collapsing and being "saved" by Bank of America

Lehman Brothers collapsing (from what I heard, this may effect commercial real estate and oil)

AIG collapsing

Wachovia Bank in trouble?

Washington Mutual in trouble?

Citigroup in trouble?

 

A lot of these institutions were highly leveraged forcing a house of cards type of effect when they couldn't write down their bad mortgages fast enough.

 

I just noticed one company, Simon Property Group, had about a 15% decline in the closing minutes of the day. I haven't started reading to find out what went wrong there. (Panic?) This is a top notch company that owns shopping centers in the US, Europe and Asia. Somewhat fortunately for me, I sold half of my SPG stock last week, because I was afraid that the housing crisis would spread to commercial real estate.

 

So tomorrow does not look like a very good day.

 

How does this look to you for the future? It has already cost me the value of about 20 Leica multi-lens systems. Hard to be cheerful and I feel a bit worried right now. I am not too optimistic that Sarah the moose skinner will come up with much of a solution. So just looking at things from Leica's perspective, a number of potential buyers may be re-thinking their spending plans.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[KM-25]

How many people are going to be interested in putting between $7500 and $10,000 into their first digital rangefinder system only to end up with a single body and one or two lenses?

 

A photographer with talent? Not likely..

[FastFashnReloaded]

Do you want it sugar coated, why? It's the way it is....it would do Leica good to hear this.

 

I am not the only one who has posted this. Both Nikon and Canon have very little to do at this point to their cameras other than minor improvements for a pro to get top notch images at any speed reliably. Leica on the other hand, has a lot of work to do. But that is the injury, the insult is that Leica has now possibly priced it self well out of the reach of some of the most talented photographers on earth.

 

These photographers are documentary shooters who never frequent here but are usually found on Lightstalkers. They don't have pictures of doggies, kitties and birds on flicker, they are on assignment all over the world shooting the photos that keep the journalism and documentary field alive.

 

In June of this year, Leica was gracious enough to set up shop during the workshops so that participants could try out M8's of which there were several. Many of the people I talked to who used the M8 in those days didn't care for it much, went back to their D300, 5D or film M's. In nearly every circumstance, the workshop participants were engaged in the type of photography that Leica would normally excel in but chose other cameras.

 

I took Eugene Richards class. In the first day, I used my M8, after that, I put it away and did not use it for the rest of the class, shot black and white C-41 in my M6 from then on. The M8 was simply too loud.

 

I think the M8 is OK, a little overpriced for what I paid at $4,800. But now it is just ridiculous. So I debate on selling it and using my film M's as they are pretty much perfect in every way and just give up on Leica in the digital medium.

 

And as far as lenses go, I have what I need and want. Anything that needs an external finder I am not interested in so that choice is easy.

 

I am not sure who Leica is after as a customer these days, but it is not the really talented shooters it would seem. Instead, it seems to be collectors or wealthy hobby types who will clearly never use this gear to the fullest or with any kind of brilliant eye...and I think that is truly ashame.

 

Is this what it has come to, $10,000 for this?

http://www.popflash.com/images/products/secondary/13127.jpg

 

\

 

Leica needs a rangefinder for the ordinary Joe, in the ... I'd say $2000 price range, with lenses to match. Now this posting of yours was logical and polite.

 

I could afford a well-built 2k$ RF, but it would SO cannibalize the M8 sales.

 

"I am not sure who Leica is after as a customer these days, but it is not the really talented shooters it would seem. Instead, it seems to be collectors or wealthy hobby types who will clearly never use this gear to the fullest"

 

Maybe... Certainly MOST Ferrari owners don't spank their kitties at the track. Same thing with Leica I'm sure.

 

"Anything that needs an external finder I am not interested in so that choice is easy. "

 

I like external finders.

 

"They don't have pictures of doggies, kitties and birds on flicker"

 

Taking pix of kitties and dogs and birds certainly doesn't mean you aren't a serious photog.

[FastFashnReloaded]

If only it was simply a decline in real estate and Lehman Brothers...

 

So tomorrow does not look like a very good day.

 

How does this look to you for the future? It has already cost me the value of about 20 Leica multi-lens systems. Hard to be cheerful and I feel a bit worried right now. I am not too optimistic that Sarah the moose skinner will come up with much of a solution. So just looking at things from Leica's perspective, a number of potential buyers may be re-thinking their spending plans.

 

I think now is actually the time to buy.

 

Buy low, OM. Stuff won't stay low forever, and y'know what, some peoples r going to make a killing. The banks and brokerages that bet wrong will go kerflooey, just as happened with the S$L debacle. Let them die. The strong will survive and do better.

[AlanG]

I think now is actually the time to buy.

 

Buy low, OM. Stuff won't stay low forever, and y'know what, some peoples r going to make a killing. The banks and brokerages that bet wrong will go kerflooey, just as happened with the S$L debacle. Let them die. The strong will survive and do better.

 

If the impact could be contained by just a few firms, I'd agree with you.

 

A lot of people started buying banks some months ago thinking that was a good time.

I did buy Fannie Mae, held it for one day, and doubled my money. (It wasn't that much and I don't usually make moves like this.) I am glad I didn't hold on to it even though it seemed very cheap at the time. Because now it is almost worthless. AIG is an insurance company and not a bank or brokerage.

 

BAC bought Merrill Lynch today for $50B and thought it was getting a steal that would be good for its future. Investers rewarded BAC by shaving 21% off of its price.

 

Specifically, what would you buy, when would you buy it, and at what price?

 

Actually, in light of this, Leica gear sure seems like a better investment. And you can actually use it. Despite the high prices, I think Leica might be on the right track... If they actually can sell enough gear at these prices that they make a profit. And part of their goal seems to be to keep some of their traditions alive. This may be the only way they can do it despite limiting their market to just the very well heeled. Maybe that will be enough.

[diogenis]

Alan, we know that economy depression is knocking on our doors, it has done it in the US already and now maybe it will do it in EU as well. As we speak I just made a very profitable selling of property giving me back 1M euros, and I do believe this was the best time for me to do it. Cash is power now, but still this has nothing to do with Leica as a company. Not in short term at least.

 

Leica manufactures the best lenses in the world. This comes at a price. Consumers can choose to either go with cheaper manufacturers and exploit electronics up to a point, or go with Leica and exploit its lenses. Miniaturization also comes at a price. So in the end its still your choice.

 

But there is no way we can expect from Leica to solve world economy, which is part a politicians job.

[diogenis]

Leica is keeping it's prestige by making this Noctilux lens. This lens is not a means for huge sales, but rather for bragging rights. This is what they can do best, this is what they do.

And I was pleased -not thrilled- with the M8.2 announcement. Pleased because leica actually seems to keep its promise about giving us a camera (M8) that is upgradable (at a cost of course) and can keep up with their latest model.

On the other hand, I am certain that its really VERY easy for Leica to upgrade at some point its electronics/software package and to give that low noise at higher ISO settings people wants. Combine that to those wonderful lens and one can easily forecast the future.

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[AlanG]

I think now is actually the time to buy.

 

Buy low, OM. Stuff won't stay low forever, and y'know what, some peoples r going to make a killing. The banks and brokerages that bet wrong will go kerflooey, just as happened with the S$L debacle. Let them die. The strong will survive and do better.

 

I followed that advice and now the stock I bought yesterday is even lower.