the warrior Posted July 31, 2008 Share #1 Posted July 31, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) Leica thanks, not to launch a new camera every year. Canon, Nikon users, etc., to pay money for novelty minimum and maximum disillusionment? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 31, 2008 Posted July 31, 2008 Hi the warrior, Take a look here Leica no launch a new M8, thanks.. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
rob_x2004 Posted July 31, 2008 Share #2 Posted July 31, 2008 Like Mr Slave says "Jesuth Chriiii" :D Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 31, 2008 Share #3 Posted July 31, 2008 It sounds like you had a less than happy experience in that line... Actually, it is a good marketing strategy to make use of the old monkey instinct to look for a tastier tidbit under the next stone. The newest and bestest syndrome. I share your appreciation of Leica being more sophisticated. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eoin Posted July 31, 2008 Share #4 Posted July 31, 2008 Mine takes exactly the same quality pictures it did almost 2 years ago and it will continue to do so well into the future. It will only look old and tired when Leica introduce a new model. Hmmm! I wonder what price point a new model will have?. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jimmy pro Posted July 31, 2008 Share #5 Posted July 31, 2008 I share your appreciation of Leica being more sophisticated. Haha! Yep, that's why Leica doesn't follow a marketing strategy that's proven to work...sophistication! Nothing to do with how there R&D costs vs potential sales volume differs from Canon's and Nikon's. In the first place the "arguement" is false to begin with. Canon for sure have been holding there topend models in production quite a while. Look how long the 1DS-II was around before the 1DS-III. Look how long the 5D has been around, even tho it's due to be replaced soon. The only thing is that with Canon the prices have went down over time, vs the M8 which has went up...but I guess that was just more "sophistication":D Next thing the arguement assumes that all Nikon and Canon buyers jump on the newest model no matter what, like mindless idiots. The 30D sold much poorer than the 20D or 40D, because everyone saw that it was a insignificant upgrade. These straw man arguements make me ROTFL. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KM-25 Posted July 31, 2008 Share #6 Posted July 31, 2008 Leica thanks, not to launch a new camera every year. Canon, Nikon users, etc., to pay money for novelty minimum and maximum disillusionment? I hate to break it to you but Nikon their homework this round, got an A+ and will continue to do so. Leica on the other hand did not and admitted to me personally that the M8 was "rushed" to market. I just did a 5 hour shoot of lifestyle stock under starlight last night. Try that with an M8 and you will feel like wiping your rear afterwards because that is what you will have. I take it you don't do this photo thing for a living. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 31, 2008 Share #7 Posted July 31, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) I would dislike wiping my rear with an M8 You're right, of course, horses for courses. Unfortunately amateurs cannot always afford the gear they would need in a given situation. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted July 31, 2008 Share #8 Posted July 31, 2008 I take it you don't do this photo thing for a living. And your point is....??? I DO shoot for a living and I try to select the right tool for the job - NO camera is useful for every type of photography! The M8 has its attributes as do those from other manufacturers. My M8 too takes exactly the same quality pictures it did when I got it. I'm sure I've said before on this forum that I think that we have better image taking tools today than ever before. Yet many still hanker after the latest, next, best thing which will apparently produce better photos (?). It appears that its out of fashion to 'learn' a camera until it is the limiting factor as opposed to the photographer. Still I never have been a follower of fashion....... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted July 31, 2008 Share #9 Posted July 31, 2008 Leica thanks, not to launch a new camera every year. Canon, Nikon users, etc., to pay money for novelty minimum and maximum disillusionment? So if Leica comes out with a new M camera, you somehow will feel forced to buy it? What about those who haven't bought an M8 and are waiting for an "improved" version? You want to deny them a Leica camera? My requirement for a digital M camera: Fix all of the little idiocyncracies and make sure everything about it is rock solid, fast, and reliable. No IR filter needed on the lens. No chance of green blobs shooting into lights at the edge of the frame. An easy way to adjust ISO and compensate for exposure in any mode. (A better user interface in general. I'm not afraid of buttons or dials.) A sensor that is state of the art in low light. (The main reason I'd buy the camera would be for available light work.) Live view. (Necessary for me in a RF body so I could do precise framing when required. This would also make it much more versatile.) No removable bottom plate. Helpful improvements to close the deal: A stabilized full frame sensor would be a really good selling point for me. (I only shoot with FF cameras now after getting rid of my 1DII) Better ergonomics in general would be a plus. I know this sounds fanciful and like a wish list in a digital M. But all of these features are available right now (except the FF stabilized sensor) and many are rather commonplace. (Sony will likely have a stabilized FF sensor out soon.) I know I could live without these features and have. But if I am to buy any NEW camera, I'd expect most if not all of them. Especially if I'm going to spend big bucks. I suspect I may be waiting a long time for Leica to make this. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eekimel Posted July 31, 2008 Share #10 Posted July 31, 2008 So if Leica comes out with a new M camera, you somehow will feel forced to buy it? What about those who haven't bought an M8 and are waiting for an "improved" version? You want to deny them a Leica camera? I'd say he's about as forced to buy the next camera as you're denied access to a Leica camera by choosing not to buy the M8. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted July 31, 2008 Share #11 Posted July 31, 2008 I'd say he's about as forced to buy the next camera as you're denied access to a Leica camera by choosing not to buy the M8. Yes but I don't lose a sale when I don't buy a Leica camera. Leica does. In any case if he is happy with his M8 why would it bother him if some manufacturers came out with a new model every year or even every day? Wasn't his post a specific request for Leica to not make a new model every year? How does that benefit him? As it has been almost two years since the M8 came out, it made no sense to me. Did I miss something? Aren't they due? Don't you think that Leica has a staff of designers who went to work on the next model as soon as the M8 design was completed? What else would they be doing? By the way I already have an expensive camera (1Ds) that has been relegated to backup duty because its files aren't always as good as I'd like, its electonics are a little slow, and it isn't very good at higher ISOs. This happens. If I need to shoot in the rain, I may use it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the warrior Posted July 31, 2008 Author Share #12 Posted July 31, 2008 Thanks Leica, you know Sorry, I do not think they want to buy in other Leica M8, I think at this Leica M8 and non launches new models as other manufacturers every day. Leica M8 is near the perfection, I think knowing that other cameras, this close to me, I was looking for M8 knowing much of it. I thought, thinking of others will be different Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted July 31, 2008 Share #13 Posted July 31, 2008 I have 2 x 1DS cameras and a 5D. In many ways I prefer the files from the 1DSs - when I use them at low ISO and for 'unhurried' shooting. Just because its not the latest camera does not mean that its unusable or that it MUST be relegated to backup duty. And as you will see from another thread, I've started to use R series lenses on the Canons which can provide excellent files. The inability to produce a torrent of new models might well give a manufacturer stability - something which is currently lacking. I have no problems with upgrades, servicing, etc., but the desire for new models all the time undermines the financial logic for this to be carried out on many cameras (the 1DS is a good example as it has crashed in value). If you accept the M8 as is, as an excellent image creating tool and use it appropriately then the imperative for a new model will at least diminish. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted July 31, 2008 Share #14 Posted July 31, 2008 ... If you accept the M8 as is, as an excellent image creating tool and use it appropriately then the imperative for a new model will at least diminish. I guess my point is that at one time the 1Ds served my needs. In examining the files shot at 100 ISO, I find the noise in the shadows bothers me a bit, so I prefer to use the 5D even at low ISOs when shooting static objects. And to my eye,. the 5D files have a bit more detail. I can generally live with the sluggish image display and pokey buffer and writing on the 1Ds too but would expect more responsiveness in a new camera. Plus you never know when you suddenly need to shoot at higher ISOs. The 1Ds would be fine if that were the best that is available. And at one time it probably was. But I wouldn't buy one today at any price. Likewise, I am sure the M8 is fine if you must have a digital rangefinder and/or have a lot of M lenses already. And of course you must use it "appropriately" within its design parameters. But it certainly needs to be updated if Leica expects to draw in many new M customers over the next two years. That much seems obvious. So I'm at the opposite end of the argument prefering that manufacturers are continually updating the models so I have the opportunity to buy "state of the art" tecchnology if I want or need it. What works for Leica, Canon, Nikon, and Sony is not my problem. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted July 31, 2008 Share #15 Posted July 31, 2008 During the last LHSA's annual convention, Andreas Kaufmann would have confirmed that there will be a new "M" camera introduced at the next Photokina and implied that it would have a built-in IR-cut filter. See FreeLists / leicareflex / [LRflex] R-10, M and X camera Info (long) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KM-25 Posted July 31, 2008 Share #16 Posted July 31, 2008 I have 2 x 1DS cameras and a 5D. In many ways I prefer the files from the 1DSs - when I use them at low ISO and for 'unhurried' shooting. Just because its not the latest camera does not mean that its unusable or that it MUST be relegated to backup duty. And as you will see from another thread, I've started to use R series lenses on the Canons which can provide excellent files. The inability to produce a torrent of new models might well give a manufacturer stability - something which is currently lacking. I have no problems with upgrades, servicing, etc., but the desire for new models all the time undermines the financial logic for this to be carried out on many cameras (the 1DS is a good example as it has crashed in value). If you accept the M8 as is, as an excellent image creating tool and use it appropriately then the imperative for a new model will at least diminish. For me, this is not about the need for the latest gadget as it is for a dependable, well thought out digital M that could be easily integrated into my film shooting. The M8 does not play well with film M's loaded with Kodachrome and it never will due to the IR filter debacle. If the M8 did not have the IR filter need, use craptastic batteries, have industry trailing high ISO performance and if it did not lock up every time a sequence of more than 3 frames is shot, I could very well use it for a long time. Let's not mix up the notion that a truly pro M is needed to mean we want the latest a greatest. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted July 31, 2008 Share #17 Posted July 31, 2008 But my point is that I DO have an adequate tool for the jobs I use it for - I don't need high ISOs, none of these lock-ups, my batteries have worked well and the IR filter is not a problem (I'd use UVas if not IRs). So I don't see the problems, and as I'm a full time freelance I'd suggest that the M8 is for me a pro M. In fact having had my M8 suffer accidental damage which was fully repaired under the passport warranty I'd say that with the M8, Leica offers something that no other manufacturer is prepared to. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KM-25 Posted July 31, 2008 Share #18 Posted July 31, 2008 In fact having had my M8 suffer accidental damage which was fully repaired under the passport warranty I'd say that with the M8, Leica offers something that no other manufacturer is prepared to. Cool, so I can get a loaner M8 while my nasty shutter release button gets an overhaul? Justin Staley, call me if I can get this done in NJ in a normal T/A time... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted July 31, 2008 Share #19 Posted July 31, 2008 But my point is that I DO have an adequate tool for the jobs I use it for - I don't need high ISOs, none of these lock-ups, my batteries have worked well and the IR filter is not a problem (I'd use UVas if not IRs). So I don't see the problems, and as I'm a full time freelance I'd suggest that the M8 is for me a pro M. In fact having had my M8 suffer accidental damage which was fully repaired under the passport warranty I'd say that with the M8, Leica offers something that no other manufacturer is prepared to. I know that you are happy with your camera but do you think it has reached perfection and Leica shouldn't release a new model soon? (Assuming they have the capability to produce a new model with significantly updated features - however you wish to define them.) Isn't that the topic of this thread, not "My M8 is great for the jobs I use it on as long as I don't expect it to do what it isn't good at." You can say that about an old Nikon F. Maybe Nikon could have stopped with the F or the F2. Why do you think the Kiev camera company is still building models from 50-60 years ago? If you feel they shouldn't release a new model soon, how long do you think they should wait? Consider that what you are happy with may be different from what buyers in 2009 (who don't currently own an M8) will be happy with. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vieri Posted July 31, 2008 Share #20 Posted July 31, 2008 During the last LHSA's annual convention, Andreas Kaufmann would have confirmed that there will be a new "M" camera introduced at the next Photokina and implied that it would have a built-in IR-cut filter.See FreeLists / leicareflex / [LRflex] R-10, M and X camera Info (long) Quite an old thread you are quoting, definitely not the most up-to-date info I think it has been made obsolete by following Kaufmann interviews, but hey - hoping is free Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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