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barjohn

Should Leica Abandon The M8?

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......People will pay more for small size, light weight and high tech. You pay much more for a super light weight laptop weighing 3 lbs or less than a 5 lb or greater notebook. Why? People want small and light weight and they know it costs more to miniaturize.

 

So I say abandon the M8 and move into the 21st century and leap frog the competition. It is time to know when to quit flogging that old nag and get a thoroughbred if you want to win the race.

 

Some years ago, whe digital cameras appeared and I used a Canon D30 and then a 1D my dream was a digital Leica M. I thought it would never happen, and when the rd1 appeared I was really happy. For some reason I cant explain even in film times I often prefered a rangefinder vs a SLR.

 

For my taste I would say:

Leica - please keep the M-System alive AND additionally develop a new - more modern camera (system).

I would suggest a dp1-like camera, but with a 28-80 zoom, large sensor, big buffer, and a reliable and fast AF.

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Hi Steve - this statement is oft-repeated, but I honestly don't think repetition makes it true - I hope I don't need to trawl through previous threads and other blogs to prove the point(?)

 

Anyway, the point that's often misunderstood is that there's a reason some of us don't own the M8, but still want to participate in hopefully pushing Leica towards a more successful M9 - I'm enthusiastic that it may sometime happen, and I'll finally be able to combine my lenses with a digital camera that's worthy of them.

 

It's great that many people who own the camera are happy with it - wonderful!

 

However, some seem to think this gives them right of veto over any future improvements.

 

plasticman

 

How I read this is you trying to rationalize your oft obsessive behavior in a forum area dedicated to the M8 which you don't own.

 

As you skillfully point out owning an M8 is not the price of admission but your posts would have at least me believing you are an expert on the M8 and if that expertise is based on reading Internet blogs, forums, and such then I would suggest you sir rethink what you know about this camera - it won't be much.

 

Here is something you might find hard to swallow - until you have used and abused an M8 you can participate all you want, but in the end you are not credible on the subject. The price of admission is REAL experience and REAL knowledge of the M8 with all it's quirks and quarks. In a word ownership.

 

As for pushing Leica one direction or another this sounds like a one man crusade a missions of sorts - yeah sure! How altruistic of you! This is more about ego then much else or your RD-1 I am not sure which.

 

Now I will go add you to the ignore list......

 

Sigh. Terry

:D:D

(a Leica old fart who doesn't know anything and apparently I am dying off, which is a good thing).

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plasticman

 

How I read this is you trying to rationalize your oft obsessive behavior in a forum area dedicated to the M8 which you don't own.

 

As you skillfully point out owning an M8 is not the price of admission but your posts would have at least me believing you are an expert on the M8 and if that expertise is based on reading Internet blogs, forums, and such then I would suggest you sir rethink what you know about this camera - it won't be much.

 

Here is something you might find hard to swallow - until you have used and abused an M8 you can participate all you want, but in the end you are not credible on the subject. The price of admission is REAL experience and REAL knowledge of the M8 with all it's quirks and quarks. In a word ownership.

 

As for pushing Leica one direction or another this sounds like a one man crusade a missions of sorts - yeah sure! How altruistic of you! This is more about ego then much else or your RD-1 I am not sure which.

 

Now I will go add you to the ignore list......

 

Sigh. Terry

:D:D

(a Leica old fart who doesn't know anything and apparently I am dying off, which is a good thing).

 

Wow - it's amazing how you can rub some people up completely the wrong way on the internet. I really don't know what I said that was so offensive... but there ya go. As I'm on Terry's ignore list, I guess I'll never find out.

 

What a strange reaction. I'm really, truly amazed.

 

(After a moment's reflection, it actually feels really nice - one less person to offend!)

As for the RD1s - I certainly prefer my film Leicas - but I'm guessing Terry wouldn't allow that those give me 'admission' here, either... Time to take a break from this forum I think - too many thin skins. ;-)

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Guest stnami
In a word ownership
doubt if it is necessary, I have access to a couple, plus a few students who own M8s. I wouldn't own one myself as I am happy with the RD-1, the film stuff I have and a long way to Solms for alterations etc. Then again I am on your ignore list........... I hear you tried to place yourself on your ignore list

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Ah - Imants, but that is something else than dragging through forums and blogs in the search of negatives and trolls and presenting them as "facts" . Lets amend "ownership" to "first hand experience".

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correction :it is the best DRF out there,as it is the only one being made

 

It might be the only one being made but it is not the only one out there. I'm referring to the Epson.

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In other words a Digilux2 mkII

 

yes, but please with an optical viewfinder.

 

But then,what could it do over a Oly 420 + a Leica 14-50 lens?

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...what could it do over a Oly 420 + a Leica 14-50 lens?

More speed, more DoF, more noise, less plastic?

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doubt if it is necessary, I have access to a couple, plus a few students who own M8s. I wouldn't own one myself as I am happy with the RD-1, the film stuff I have and a long way to Solms for alterations etc. Then again I am on your ignore list........... I hear you tried to place yourself on your ignore list

 

I bet you wake-up every morning look in the mirror - pat yourself on the back and think about how clever you THINK your are - NOT! The fact that you have students is somehow scary....

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Guest stnami

......... people want Leica to do more than just a M8, by this i mean not the Panaleica stuff, no different to the Oly crowd chasing a OM-I type or the Nikon crowd after a Nikon F.

Sure all this stuff would be great..........

 

 

Oh dear Terry this is only net shit unless you take all this so seriously ....... shrug ......

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The analogy is off the mark IMHO. Before the M8 people were clamouring for a digital M and leaving the M for other digital cameras.

 

Many, maybe most, of the complaints about the M8 have come from people who don't use the camera. That's their right of course.

 

If you read the analogy again stunsworth you'll see that the analogy has to do with the people who stuck by Dylan and those who stuck by Leica, not those who abandoned both. Your post and the other post about Dylan being abandoned for groups with a better voice just illustrate the point I was making about posts such as this one. They have no relevance and break down into petty bickering about moot points of each other's posts. This post is neither provocative or groundbreaking, it is not even yesterdays paper it is last years news and only serves as a platform for Leica bashing and endless comparisons to cameras that aren't relative. I'm sure that Leica already knows everything that has been posted here as it has been paraded in front of them and M8 users for years. Personally I'm tired of listening to people throwing up on a camera that I've been using successfully, without fail for almost two years. If you don't like the M8 then buy something else because it will be around for a while until Leica produces another camera that everyone can bitch about.

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If you don't like the M8 then buy something else because it will be around for a while until Leica produces another camera that everyone can bitch about.

 

Sadly, this is the most accurate observation made here for a long time. I remember the wailing and gnashing of teeth when the M7 came out - Autoexposure - Horrors! Then we had the MP dusty viewfinder scandal. And of course we entered the Leica digital age - The Digilux 1, Digilux 2, both had their detractors and champions and the same arguments whirled around...

 

and around...

 

and around...

 

Fact is, whatever is the top of the Leica "tree", in terms of innovation or price will always attract discussion and debate.

 

What I find particularly irksome is the view, unfortunately expressed by Terry, that you have to own an M8 in order to be "allowed" to express an opinion on it. That is just plain wrong, in so many ways.

 

I do not own an M8. I never will, because it does not do it for me at a basic level. That does not mean that I do not want a digital M - quite the contrary - but I see no reason to put up with what is available if it does not meet my needs. I certainly would not buy one then whinge about it's shortcomings as so many here do.

 

In the meantime I continue to follow Leica's digital trajectory with interest and will continue to comment as and when I see fit, "entry fee" or no.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

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What I find particularly irksome is the view, unfortunately expressed by Terry, that you have to own an M8 in order to be "allowed" to express an opinion on it. That is just plain wrong, in so many ways.

 

I do not own an M8. I never will, because it does not do it for me at a basic level. That does not mean that I do not want a digital M - quite the contrary - but I see no reason to put up with what is available if it does not meet my needs. I certainly would not buy one then whinge about it's shortcomings as so many here do.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

 

Bill,

 

I respect your point of view.

 

What what I find irksome - is the amount of FUD being spread by people who have no real experience with the M8 or the usual I had one out for a day (making me an expert) and on on.

 

Does this mean you have to own an M8 to participate or comment no of course not, it is how the non user/owners participate that has finally gone beyond reason. That participation is often - not always - repeating the negatives no matter how true or not they maybe often read on some Internet forum, blog, or rumor site. The often repeated rationalization for spreading these half truths and innuendo is that it is good for Leica and will force them to a better end product. At this point it rings hollow. Bill I noticed you put "allowed' in quotes. I re-read what I wrote and I did not at any point say somebody was not "allowed' to comment and or participate.

 

With respect I don't believe you are one of them Bill. My apologies if you feel irked but then so am I, an M8 owner who is living the experience.

 

Best Regards. Terry.

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Bill,

 

I respect your point of view.

 

What what I find irksome - is the amount of FUD being spread by people who have no real experience with the M8 or the usual I had one out for a day (making me an expert) and on on.

 

Does this mean you have to own an M8 to participate or comment no of course not, it is how the non user/owners participate that has finally gone beyond reason. That participation is often - not always - repeating the negatives no matter how true or not they maybe often read on some Internet forum, blog, or rumor site. The often repeated rationalization for spreading these half truths and innuendo is that it is good for Leica and will force them to a better end product. At this point it rings hollow. Bill I noticed you put "allowed' in quotes. I re-read what I wrote and I did not at any point say somebody was not "allowed' to comment and or participate.

 

With respect I don't believe you are one of them Bill. My apologies if you feel irked but then so am I, an M8 owner who is living the experience.

 

Best Regards. Terry.

 

Terry, I take your points and respect and regard you as one of the level headed brigade here, all the more reason why I was surprised at your words. I did not put "allowed" in quotes to imply or indicate that I was quoting you, and I regret any confusion caused.

 

We can agree about the spreading and repetition of FUD. I would not dream of offering my views on the M8's performance or usability without more first-hand experience than I have had. But my views on the design and concept are as valid as the next man's.

 

The M8 is flawed, but then I can't think of a single product, of any type, from any manufacturer, that does not have a drawback or compromise of some sort inherent in it's design or manufacture.

 

Love it or loathe it the M8 is the only game in town if you want to go out today and buy a new DRF. It just so happens that it has never appealed to me, for various reasons. I would love to see an M9 that addresses my wants and needs, and I will wait patiently for the "next generation".

 

Regards,

 

Bill

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I enjoy a pissing match as much as anybody, but to wander away from this one for a moment, I have a question regarding a proposal further up the forum, that a new digital M have live-view. The question is, "What for?" This is a sincere question, I promise you. I can't figure out for the life of me, why anybody would want live view on a non-auto-focus camera. Maybe, to put it on a tripod and shoot macros?

 

JC

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Bill, what would your special needs and wants be then?

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Funny Thread.

 

Wonderful to read what an/some (self-appointed advocate(s) of the) average-joe thinks about the Leica M8.

 

But, hey, face it, it is a niche camera, absolutely not suitable for the average-joe. So some colleagues totally miss the point with their pseudo-schoolbook-logic...

 

Take it easy. We are different and happy! And as long as there are some of us, there will be a M8 ...

 

Have a joyful photograpyh weekend.

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Are you describing a Contax G2 with FF digital sensor?

I think Leica can make the RF just as in the G2, so that you may have a parallax corrected full view without frame lines. I would like that.

 

But I need to use the Leica's existing lenses more than anything else. So let the Manual focus stay.

 

I don't know if all these can be made in a single viewfinder, because in this case, you would need the moving lens viewfinder for the correct angle, combined with the typical RF overlapping windows design for Manual focus Lenses.

 

BYW, I think the existing M8 is good enough as is.

 

Seyhun

 

 

It should be small (smaller than the M8), far more ergonomic in controls, and far more modern in features such as a FF sensor (or larger if need be), rather than frame lines, adjust image magnification so the frame is constant and accurate for the distance or use electronic frame lines that adjust for distance. Electronically couples lenses so f-stop, focal length and distance to subject are all captured. No sloppy cam and roller constantly needing adjustment. .

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...The M8 is flawed, but then I can't think of a single product, of any type, from any manufacturer, that does not have a drawback or compromise of some sort inherent in it's design or manufacture.

Love it or loathe it the M8 is the only game in town if you want to go out today and buy a new DRF. It just so happens that it has never appealed to me, for various reasons. I would love to see an M9 that addresses my wants and needs, and I will wait patiently for the "next generation"...

Same for me.

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