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barjohn

Should Leica Abandon The M8?

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I went back to the RD-1 for a project which needed a quieter camera than the M8 and was surprised and pleased how much I enjoyed using it. I've adjusted the rangefinder patch and it worked well. Most of all, I enjoyed having the lever wind, both to hold on to the camera and the routine of cocking the shutter after each shot. I'm glad I kept it.

 

Not bad idea for tradition.

 

Mark, I was thinking the other day about sealing the camera entirely making it fully weather proof, that it would have been an easy task with simply adding some gaskets and all, but then I thought myself : and what about condensing? How do other cameras fight condensing?

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"Incidentally, maybe I should add that I really do want a digital M - but not one that produces images like this at high ISOs."

 

forgive me but numerous examples of excellant high iso performance have been posted. folks, like jaapv, have painstakingly demonstrated the process, post process and the results to no avail. this is what i speak of when i condemn the internet misinformation machine. the m8 will produce exceptional high iso files if you take the time to understand how to go about it. this has been demonstrated here with great detail.

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Yes, Leica already tried doing that. It was with the Digilux: 4/3rd sensor, optimized for the perfect lenses etc. and I think they will keep on working on this concept. Will it be anywhere near as small as the M8 with M lenses? Never. But maybe one day someone will build the super-sensor and it will raise the little point-and-shoots such as the DLux 3 to heights that make an M8 obsolete. They will not abandon a concept that has been refined over so many years just to fit a full-frame sensor in a rangefinder body, and frankly I don't care if there will EVER be a full-frame rangefinder. Who really needs a lens wider than an effective 15mm (the CV12mm) for any kind of serious photography? Oh sure, the architectural photographer? No, any serious architecture photographer would be shooting large format at that width to compensate for all the perspective distortion.

 

Ok wider lenses are less light sensitive. True. But why don't you get me a better sensor with the crop factor and put it into my M8 body? Make my 28cron at 2.0 work like the 35 1.4 with a full size sensor and I will gladly take the extra depth of field.

 

The pictures my M8 lets me take are far superior to anything that Henri Cartier Bresson was able to work with, or Robert Frank, or Ernst Haas (slow slide film) or Helen Levitt. So there you go, the M8 gives me enough to live up to. And the rest is up to me. I shoot a lot, I exhibit in galleries, and most importantly, I love my M8 already the way it is now.

So keep improving it, Leica, and I'll love it even more. And everyone else can just buy themselves a 5d or D700 or Nissan GT-R, or an iphone. I'm sure your pictures will be so much better, and the only reason they are not great right now is because you don't have a full-frame rangefinder.

 

Sorry about the sarcasm, I don't mean to offend anybody, just inspire everyone to go out and take the kind of pictures the M8 is capable of. There are a lot of talented artists out there that wish they could afford the kind of gear we are bashing on this forum.

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Yes, Leica already tried doing that. It was with the Digilux: 4/3rd sensor, optimized for the perfect lenses etc. and I think they will keep on working on this concept. Will it be anywhere near as small as the M8 with M lenses? Never. But maybe one day someone will build the super-sensor and it will raise the little point-and-shoots such as the DLux 3 to heights that make an M8 obsolete. They will not abandon a concept that has been refined over so many years just to fit a full-frame sensor in a rangefinder body, and frankly I don't care if there will EVER be a full-frame rangefinder. Who really needs a lens wider than an effective 15mm (the CV12mm) for any kind of serious photography? Oh sure, the architectural photographer? No, any serious architecture photographer would be shooting large format at that width to compensate for all the perspective distortion.

 

Ok wider lenses are less light sensitive. True. But why don't you get me a better sensor with the crop factor and put it into my M8 body? Make my 28cron at 2.0 work like the 35 1.4 with a full size sensor and I will gladly take the extra depth of field.

 

The pictures my M8 lets me take are far superior to anything that Henri Cartier Bresson was able to work with, or Robert Frank, or Ernst Haas (slow slide film) or Helen Levitt. So there you go, the M8 gives me enough to live up to. And the rest is up to me. I shoot a lot, I exhibit in galleries, and most importantly, I love my M8 already the way it is now.

So keep improving it, Leica, and I'll love it even more. And everyone else can just buy themselves a 5d or D700 or Nissan GT-R, or an iphone. I'm sure your pictures will be so much better, and the only reason they are not great right now is because you don't have a full-frame rangefinder.

 

Sorry about the sarcasm, I don't mean to offend anybody, just inspire everyone to go out and take the kind of pictures the M8 is capable of. There are a lot of talented artists out there that wish they could afford the kind of gear we are bashing on this forum.

 

indeed my friend. i also work very, very hard at gallery sales and the value of the m8 is quite apparent in the prints. i was shocked at the first a3 size prints i made!

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forgive me but numerous examples of excellant high iso performance have been posted. folks, like jaapv, have painstakingly demonstrated the process, post process and the results to no avail. this is what i speak of when i condemn the internet misinformation machine. the m8 will produce exceptional high iso files if you take the time to understand how to go about it. this has been demonstrated here with great detail.

 

Ehhmm - how did this thread get to be about me?

 

Anyway, even though Steve seems to be suggesting I'm not wanted, I read and post here because I generally find the debate and people interesting; I'm constantly intrigued as to what Leica will do next; and I hope and wish that the company listens to the constructive criticism that is voiced here, so that the next iteration is good enough for me and many others to buy it.

 

As for the high ISO performance, I think even you would have to agree that the results are not optimal. Let's leave it at that.

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Anyway, even though Steve seems to be suggesting I'm not wanted...

 

Not at all. I'm happy for you to post away. I'm just curious about this obsession with the M8.

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i'll get busy steve! whatever your post process is with the m8 and b+w it's bang on my friend! care to share?

 

Resize in Photoshop, and that's about it <grin>.

 

Alien Skin Blowup does an excellent job too, but it's too expensive for the number of A2 prints I make.

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plasticman

i have absolutely no qualms with discussing the m8 and my experiences with it at length my friend. all i ask is that we converse with the best of intentions and choose our words wisely.

 

i am happy with the performance of the m8 even at high iso. is it the best? i have no idea. i work well with the camera and accept it in it's current manifestation. i do believe that a lot of the "issue's" discussed at length on the internet are a result of not fully understanding why leica made the choices it did and how to properly use the camera.

 

i have been issued a d1x, d2x, carried 5d's, seen the files from an 1ds etc etc. i made a careful and educated choice in the m8 (as this in essence was a business decision) and so far i am am totally pleased. i believe it is a great camera with a (undeserved) bad reputation.

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I vote for no body change. This would be a huge mistake, IMO. Make the M9 faster, more reliable and that's it.

 

Second that. And a less noisy sensor, too, please

 

Only sell them to people who live in deserts

 

How about sandstorms?

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Guest guy_mancuso

Should Leica Abandon The M8?

 

In a word, NO! It was great at the time for Leica and us and they should continue to build off it and improve it plus go forward but the need to find the right place in the market as far as product and pricing. But they can't live of it alone , they need to be in the lower and upper markets as well.

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It amazes me that many people on this forum can not engage in a discussion about the M8 or Leica without resorting to name calling or trying to put the writer down. As to Leica never abandoning a product line, what happened to the R9 digital back? What happened to the MATE lens? Where is the 75/1.4? Leica, like any other company ceases to produce an item when it is no longer profitable. The M8 may be falling into that category if their financial statements are to be believed.

 

I don't know of Oly or any of the SLR manufactures using carbon fiber composite bodies. They would be light and very strong, hence their use on high performance boats, aircraft, and space vehicles not to mention many weapon systems. I am not talking about molded plastic like the current cameras use.

 

Let me set the record straight, I am both a lawyer and and engineer with a great deal of business experience.

 

While many of you bought into the M8 because you already owned Leica glass, a company cannot survive and build a market on that basis. They need new entrants that don't own a single lens and who will buy into the new system.

 

I never implied the viewfinder should be an electronic imaging viewfinder. I meant either electronic frame lines in an optical viewfinder or electronically controlled optical viewfinder.

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I sure hope Leica does not abandon M system. That's what I came to Leica for.

 

What John described reminds me of APS system in 35mm SLR and P&S world. I remember Minolta Vectis, pretty nice looking tiny camera. Minolta even tried to revive it by putting their digital on that system first. What a horrible death APS system had.

 

What I don't want is plastic feeling plastic looking M.

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Should Leica abandon the M8? An emphatic no to this. It certainly meets my needs.

 

A pity that a small number of people want a different camera to the oine they bought. Perhaps it proves that some will never be satisfied. Unfortunately they seem to be in the majority on this board.

 

So nice though to see the 'Leica M8 is wonderul' thread representing the many thousands like me who love this camera and actually enjoy the images it produces.

 

Let's move on from negativity and trying to rebuild what is an excellent piece of kit. What about some images for everyone to enjoy on this board?

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Should Leica abandon the M8? An emphatic no to this. It certainly meets my needs.

 

A pity that a small number of people want a different camera to the oine they bought. Perhaps it proves that some will never be satisfied. Unfortunately they seem to be in the majority on this board.

 

So nice though to see the 'Leica M8 is wonderul' thread representing the many thousands like me who love this camera and actually enjoy the images it produces.

 

Let's move on from negativity and trying to rebuild what is an excellent piece of kit. What about some images for everyone to enjoy on this board?

 

Hear Hear!!

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How would you weatherproof the lenses?

 

it's not just lenses.

Say you have the best sealed camera, and that you change the lens one day under heavy humidity. You will enclose humidity that will eventually lead to rust. Humidity won't be able to escape. Just a thought as to why the M8 is not weatherproof.

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