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barjohn

Should Leica Abandon The M8?

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I am trying to remember the name of a photgrapher who shot events with a small umbrella flash mounted to a helmet on his head. (I saw him speak some years ago.) It bounced into a small umbrella. It caused quite a reaction. I think he later became a very succcessful shooter. (I want to say Mark Seliger.)

 

 

Anyhow, someone else is doing it. The one I saw was much smaller.

 

shooter.Juergen Specht - Photographs - True Story 1: A Photographer's Quest for Perfect Light

 

 

I bet Gary Fong is kidking himself for not thinking of this first.

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Guest noah_addis

Wow, I can't believe there are so many replies to this simple question.

 

The answer is no, leica shouldn't abandon the M8. I hope the M9, if there is one, keeps the same basic design or if anything is more traditional than the M8.

 

It's not an automatic camera. I have a G9 and while it's fun to play with for a few minutes, it's totally frustrating to be constantly fighting with the camera for control and I find it unusable for serious work the way I like to shoot.

 

I realized the other day the main reason I like the rangefinder design. It isn't the quiet shutter, or the unobtrusiveness, though I do like to carry a minimal amount of gear and I do appreciate the small bodies and lenses. Primarily it is the viewfinder.

 

When I shot with film M cameras, in many circumstances I stop down a bit, I like a complex layered look and prefer a clean interesting composition to one where the background is totally blown out of focus. (There are times I like this look as well, and I'm not dismissing it.)

 

When shooting with dslrs for the paper, I find myself shooting more wide-open. Because with the high-speed lenses I use the background on the groundglass is often quite out of focus, I can't see as easily what is in the background. I am forced to blur the background because often I get unexpected things back there and I can't visualize exactly what the picture will look like. I know there is dof preview, but this is too dark and not practical for fast-moving work.

 

Once I switched to the M8, I found that I could shoot the way I used to again. I can see the whole frame clearly and have found I no longer have a problem with distracting elements in the background since I can see them clearly when composing.

 

For the same reason I guess, despite what some have said are inaccurate framelines, I find myself not having to crop M8 files nearly as much as those from the 5d. With the canons I constantly find myself having distracting elements near the edges of the frame, but with the M8 files I rarely have to crop. I know the framelines aren't perfect, but I use only a few lenses so I guess I know them well enough to know what I'm going to get. Being able to see outside of the frame a bit is a BIG plus.

 

I had to shoot an important assignment on a really tight deadline the other day, I only had a half hour to shoot and not much time to transmit the images. I had my M8 and 5d, but only shot a few frames with the latter. All of the frames I transmitted were with the M8, and out of the 12 pictures I sent, not one had to be cropped. I used jpegs since I was on that tight deadline, set the camera on 'cloudy' and the files were great. I used manual exposure as always and checked the histograms. The files were so clean I literally sent them right out of the camera with no cropping and no toning on any of the frames. This is great performance on deadline. With the canons I constantly have to fiddle with the color and crop more of the images.

 

So, I hope leica sticks to the traditional rangefinder model. It seems as if there are plenty of people out there who like the mix of traditional and modern technology, M8s are outselling film Leicas from what I understand. In my opinion, any future advances should be confined to improving the imaging performance of the sensor and processing. Maybe a bigger buffer would be nice. And I guess better weather sealing, though I've been caught in the rain with m M8 without a problem.

 

Other than that, I think the M8 should continue to evolve. Unless they want to build a digital MP with a manual wind...

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Unless they want to build a digital MP with a manual wind...

 

Together with a better sensor and reliability - that just about sums-up what I'm after.

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I miss my film M bodies. Ever since I went digital I am just to spoiled/lazy to go back to film. I am of the PC photoshop age so playing around with raw files is fine by me. I would be in heaven if I can manually cock the shutter on a digital MP. I would be upset if Leica gave up on the M system, although Barjohn's opinion is a realistic one.

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All the manual-wind fans are missing a trick that the M8 will perform when asked. If the power switch is set to Continuous, the camera shoots more rapidly.

 

Whatever the delay is with Single-shot, it makes quite a difference.

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All the manual-wind fans are missing a trick that the M8 will perform when asked. If the power switch is set to Continuous, the camera shoots more rapidly.

 

Whatever the delay is with Single-shot, it makes quite a difference.

 

I just miss the gear feeling of the film advance and shutter cock. Especially those smooth brass gears of the M3.

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Guest stnami
Should Leica Abandon The M8?
...if it did what else would the Leica camera sector do?Watch movies?

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although Barjohn's opinion is a realistic one.

 

I don't have the same opinion about barjohn's opinion.

Everyone knew what the M8 was, except for the very first buyers of the camera, shortly after it was introduced. So John knew what he was buying, he did nothing but complain about it from the first day he had one in his hands and it didn't stop and I doubt it will stop now even though he doesn't own one anymore. That was nearly 1.5 years ago. He recently sold his M8 after posting this thread. I would figure that if someone was that turned off by a product, no matter what that product was, that they would get rid of it and move on, at least that is what I do. Instead he chose to B&M about what it should do and what he couldn't do with it instead of taking picture with it.

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...if it did what else would the Leica camera sector do?Watch movies?

Nope - sit outside in the sun drinking coffee:p

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I don't have the same opinion about barjohn's opinion.

Everyone knew what the M8 was, except for the very first buyers of the camera, shortly after it was introduced. So John knew what he was buying, he did nothing but complain about it from the first day he had one in his hands and it didn't stop and I doubt it will stop now even though he doesn't own one anymore. That was nearly 1.5 years ago. He recently sold his M8 after posting this thread. I would figure that if someone was that turned off by a product, no matter what that product was, that they would get rid of it and move on, at least that is what I do. Instead he chose to B&M about what it should do and what he couldn't do with it instead of taking picture with it.

Leica moved on from its screw mount to bayonet mount and redesigned its III series to an M series. I see his point. Leica has a history of being innovative. If they do create a new system which is a major improvement over the M system and provides some sort backwards compatibility which reflects both M quality and innovation, I think it would still be true to Leica's philosophy. I don't know John but I am sure he used it enough to come to his conclusion.

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I can't say enuf good things about the M8. It takes better pix than I was ever able to do with an M4 and an M6. My ability to make images is similar with all 3 cameras, but the IQ and particularly the shadow detail are amazing with this camera.

 

Couldn't be more pleased. Isn't it fitting that John's camera has gone to such a good home?

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...Isn't it fitting that John's camera has gone to such a good home?

 

Absolutely! Congratulations on your new addition.

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I can't say enuf good things about the M8. It takes better pix than I was ever able to do with an M4 and an M6. My ability to make images is similar with all 3 cameras, but the IQ and particularly the shadow detail are amazing with this camera.

 

Couldn't be more pleased. Isn't it fitting that John's camera has gone to such a good home?

 

Yes, it is good that his camera has found a good home. Enjoy...

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

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For people who have wondered in this thread about Leica lens quality as concerns digital, there's an interesting post here, mounting a Leica R 90 f.2 on a Canon 1DsIII. The post is very interesting -- it involves uprezzing a shot to make a extremely high quality large 24x36 print -- and to tell the truth, I can't imagine how it could get very much better in terms of print quality. The lens is absolutely up to it. The only questions, I guess, would involve ISOs and diffraction limitations, which have to be worked around (the guy doing the test says that for this quality of work, the 1DsIII is already starting to show noise at ISO 200.)

 

Further, this also suggests to me that there may be an opening for a Leica R -- if you can get prints this good from a 21mp Canon sensor and Leica lens, then perhaps an ~18mp Leica M8-style sensor could give some of the MF systems a hard run...I notice the latest digital backs are running in the $30,000+ range, and that doesn't include massively expensive cameras or lenses...

 

Here's the link:

 

diglloyd: Good Pixels Go Big

 

 

JC

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I can't think of a better home for my M8 than Bill, he is quite the gentleman. Now if someone could use a 40, 50 or 90 cron?

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I also own a G9 and although the camera takes fine images and is simple to use in Auto/P/Whatever mode the images produced by it are no match to those produced by a M8. I have taken basically the same image with a G9 and the M8 and it is hard to view the G9 images next to the M8 images.

The G9 also has so many buttons and option and the button are so close together that it is almost imposible, for me, to use in anything other then Auto/P mode and I'm always hitting one of those button that throws the camera into some mode I have no idea how to get out of it. Like manual focus.

Although I have had a love affair with the M camera from 1972 that is not the reason I bought a M8. I bought it because of the images it can produce "IF I" do the work to capture those images. Romantic, Me, I don't think so. At least that is not what others say about me about anything.

Again clearly the M8 is not for you, just like it is not for Barjohn.

So I ask If you have no desire to own a M8 why are you on the M8 forum.

I have no desire to own a Nikon D3 or D700 or whatever model Nikon DSLR or Canon DSLR cameras so I don't go to the Nikon or Canon forums spewing bile about those camera and touting the M8.

Have a nice day and good luck with whatever camera system you like using.

 

I have only canned two Leica Cameras in my life ESPECIALLY ON THIS FORUM.

 

The first was the Leica/Pana D3.

and the second is the M8, both are over expensive for what you get.

The Leica/Pana D3 is about dead, and in my view the M8 is an embarrassment.

 

And the most praise goes to the Brilliant innovation called the DMR.

 

Some points you raised.

 

No, I have NO DESIRE to own an M8 not in the currant configuration.

So why am I on the M8 forum, well as owner of over $40,000 Aus on Leica products

I think I have a right to be, or perhaps I am on it for a good laugh.

 

 

I know of no other Leica Camera that has had so much negative comments on it.

Most of the criticism on this Fantastic, Brilliant, Superb, Wonderful and other related bullshit on the M8 is mostly from it's owners as well as non M8 owners,

I have also expressed my opinion, If Leica wants me to spend more money on their products, convince me First.

 

As I said, the Little Canon G9 is not in the same class as the M8, but for value for money

It's a terrific Digicam, the only problem with it is, it's not fitted with a Leica Lens.

 

And Finaly I always have a good day whenever I am using my Film Leicas.

 

Cheers.

 

PS.....Remember the truth always hurts.

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Well, nonsense never hurts. The D3, and the M8, according to the latest financial reports, are the main moneymakers for Leica.....I might also add, "c'st le ton qui fait la musique" ...

 

I know of no other Leica Camera that has had so much negative comments on it

 

 

Let's educate you then

R3 generally despised at introduction

R4 electronic problems

M5 broken by customer strike

M6 electronic problems

 

To name but a few...

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