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barjohn

Should Leica Abandon The M8?

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Okay, you guys have succeeded in giving me a massive inferiority complex. I'm just a lowly photographer. Guess I'd better take my chair, go sit in the corner and keep my mouth shut.

 

Considering that we apparently have two largeish egos thrashing it out in this public space I see no need in feeling anything much - except possibly pity. If it was kindergarten I would tell them to grow up. Somehow I think that is an overly optimistic scenario.

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Okay, you guys have succeeded in giving me a massive inferiority complex. I'm just a lowly photographer. Guess I'd better take my chair, go sit in the corner and keep my mouth shut.

Hmmm.. What were Mr. Lee's credentials again? Rather impressive - but German corporate culture is something that is difficult if not impossible to grasp from a transatlantic viewpoint- ideas like John's would have a hard time on German soil.....

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Okay, you guys have succeeded in giving me a massive inferiority complex. I'm just a lowly photographer. Guess I'd better take my chair, go sit in the corner and keep my mouth shut.

 

Many of us may not be qualified to tell a company what to do. However all of us are qualified to state what we'd like to see in a camera. Whether a company wants to consider any of these ideas or actually has the ability to implement them is another matter.

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Ridder has been personally moderated. Another outburst of the above kind will have him/her out.

 

I have left his post for all to view because it is a clear indicator of his/her character and I think we should all be clear on just where each of us is coming from. Also, some interesting posts follow his and need to be in context.

 

So now lets all smile and move on. I have some mountains to move (or is that to photograph?)

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Guest stnami

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I don't see his/her outburst worse or better then many others on the forum .......... the lack of a mates club as support doesn't help Ridder's cause.

.. all I can read is that the

just boring old stuff by a couple of boring old people.
may have ruffled a few feathers but there is nothing in the rest, and he is probably right with the comment...... as long as there is a client base as the one that exists Leica will be around

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Coming back full circle, I just bought John's M8. We've corresponded before and it was nice to get a camera from a friend.

 

I'm getting more gigs and can't work without a backup body (the camera's). Now I'll be able to use 2 lenses more easily.

 

I'd really like to see Sean Reid's flash tether that he uses to hang the off-camera flash from his wrist. Sticking the flash in my armpit while focusing this weekend was a PITA.

 

Thanks, John. Regards to all,

 

Hi Bill,

 

One option is to use a flash with a tripod thread in the base. The Canon coiled extension cords, for example, have that thread in the remote hotshoe (at the non-camera end of the cord). If you have that thread try this:

 

1.Buy a very short bolt that fits the tripod thread and then two washers that fit loosely over the bolt (you'll need some room for the strap material to sit between the edge of the washer hole and the bolt).

 

2. Thread about 16" of thin wrist strap material (about 3/8" wide) through the washer so that the strap is evenly divided in two (both ends of the strap will now extend about 8" from the washer).

 

3. Slide the washer over the bolt and then add a second washer.

 

4. Thread the bolt into the tripod thread and tighten so that the strap is compressed and held firmly in place. If the bolt is too long for this get a shorter bolt or add extra washers as spacers.

 

5. Add two strap sliders and a strap retainer to connect the two loose strap ends together. I then wrap the two loose ends of strap, which have already passed through the strap retainer, with duct tape. This provides a little extra security. The strap sliders can be moved to adjust the wrist opening as needed.

 

If your flash has a locking collar then you might want to try the following.

 

1. Start with a wrist strap from a compact camera. These often end in a thin cord.

 

2. Make a noose with the cord and cinch it just above the foot of the flash (which would normally go into the hot shoe). Then tighten the collar down to hold the noose in place firmly (the collar will compress the cord against the flash foot).

 

The bolt method should be stronger but I have straps mounted on flashes (using both methods) and have not yet had a problem (after many, many years).

 

I think I'll write about this some time and then I'll add DIY illustrations.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

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Adan captured eloquently the point I was trying to make from the beginning. The only hope for a FF sensor in the M8 body with current M lenses is either a breakthrough sensor that is as sensitive to incident light as direct light or maybe a curved sensor to compensate for the angle difference. Since the only market for such a sensor at present is Leica, this is not a sufficiently large market for the required R&D investment. Perhaps when the big shops decide to put a larger sensor in a really small body they will be motivated to create such a sensor. On the other hand, it may be easier to design different lenses that will work with the current sensor type of technology and still get the small body. I don't know.

 

As noted in an earlier post I sold my camera to Bill P. and I am selling off my lenses and accessories. As much as I liked many things about the M8, it isn't the camera for me. I really hope Leica reads through this post as I think it will be an eye opener once they filter out all of the personal attack crap. The N1 (not a typo, stands for New model) needs to be a real step forward in DRF not more cosmetic stuff like "Additional upgrade options include a personal or signature engraving on the top plate and installing a Vulcanite leatherette body covering. "

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Or wait for Sean to go into mass production.

 

.............. Chris

 

One of me is already too many. <G>

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

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I am trying to remember the name of a photgrapher who shot events with a small umbrella flash mounted to a helmet on his head. (I saw him speak some years ago.) It bounced into a small umbrella. It caused quite a reaction. I think he later became a very succcessful shooter. (I want to say Mark Seliger.)

 

 

Anyhow, someone else is doing it. The one I saw was much smaller.

 

shooter.Juergen Specht - Photographs - True Story 1: A Photographer's Quest for Perfect Light

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And here we are enthusing how unobtrusive the M8 is in streetshooting, and how unusable a DSLR because people react to it too much:rolleyes:

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Leica Camera AG - Starting October 1, 2008

 

Upgrade Programme and Appeasement Voucher - all the evidence you need to confirm that the M8.0 is at the end of the line ?

 

Abandoned, not really as the M8.II is only two months away. All the disenchantment will disappear, all the features we want (except FF) built-in to support our fabulous lenses. No more back-focus, battery woes, frame-line quandaries, noisy wind-ons, dirty VF's and smooth shutter release. Too late to add more now as the testing is done and the production line is starting to roll.

 

Abandoned is a state of mind.

 

We will be delighted !!

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I like to think that I'm a practical man too, and not a Leica M romantic, but I enjoy using the M8 more than any camera I've ever used before. And the photographs are gorgeous - technically at least, if not artistically <grin>. The only experience that comes close was when I used my first M - a Leica M2 - for the first time. That was a revalation, so was the M8.

 

Ok Steve,

 

I have been using Leica R's since 1972 and the M7 since 2003.

I am a devout Leica lover and always will be.

However, on Monday I walked into Camera lane after looking at the shop window.

A Leica M8 silver for nearly half the going new price, whats the problem so I checked it

Out, oh yes an X demo model, Ok so I can play with it.

First turn power switch on, what nothing on screen, forgot no live picture.

Focus on subject then shoot, check image, F%&%$#@%^% out of focus, try again,

Second shot much better,however zoomed on image, not that good, try again.

Took more shots, battery playing up, undo bottom plate replace battery.

Wasn't very impressed.

My cheap little Canon G9 just a little dearer then a couple of IR

filters is so simple, turn on, instant live picture, frame and fire, image is perfect and in focus.

With so many options on this little gem how in the hell can you beat it, Ok it's not in the same class as the M8 but nore is the price.

People today are more Techno minded, trying to sell them a product thats primitive

is not on, it might produce great files, but most people today only want to view their images on a computer and perhaps print a 10X15 cm photo.

What person's are going to spend maga bucks on a 1950's electronic replica

that still needs the bottom plate to be detached before replacing it's battery.

 

So who is going to own a M8 most likely a person who loves Leica M's.

What ever Leica produces, they will buy it, I call them Romantics.

Simply in love with an idea.

 

In the mean time I will continue to use my Leica Film cameras as after all,

There is nothing out there to touch them.

 

Cheers.

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Glad to hear you're happy with the G9.

 

Your experience doesn't match mine. No big deal, no camera is a 'one size fits all' solution - even one producing perfect photographs such as the Canon.

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Ok Steve,

 

I have been using Leica R's since 1972 and the M7 since 2003.

I am a devout Leica lover and always will be.

However, on Monday I walked into Camera lane after looking at the shop window.

A Leica M8 silver for nearly half the going new price, whats the problem so I checked it

Out, oh yes an X demo model, Ok so I can play with it.

First turn power switch on, what nothing on screen, forgot no live picture.

Focus on subject then shoot, check image, F%&%$#@%^% out of focus, try again,

Second shot much better,however zoomed on image, not that good, try again.

Took more shots, battery playing up, undo bottom plate replace battery.

Wasn't very impressed.

My cheap little Canon G9 just a little dearer then a couple of IR

filters is so simple, turn on, instant live picture, frame and fire, image is perfect and in focus.

With so many options on this little gem how in the hell can you beat it, Ok it's not in the same class as the M8 but nore is the price.

People today are more Techno minded, trying to sell them a product thats primitive

is not on, it might produce great files, but most people today only want to view their images on a computer and perhaps print a 10X15 cm photo.

What person's are going to spend maga bucks on a 1950's electronic replica

that still needs the bottom plate to be detached before replacing it's battery.

 

So who is going to own a M8 most likely a person who loves Leica M's.

What ever Leica produces, they will buy it, I call them Romantics.

Simply in love with an idea.

 

In the mean time I will continue to use my Leica Film cameras as after all,

There is nothing out there to touch them.

 

Cheers.

 

 

I also own a G9 and although the camera takes fine images and is simple to use in Auto/P/Whatever mode the images produced by it are no match to those produced by a M8. I have taken basically the same image with a G9 and the M8 and it is hard to view the G9 images next to the M8 images.

The G9 also has so many buttons and option and the button are so close together that it is almost imposible, for me, to use in anything other then Auto/P mode and I'm always hitting one of those button that throws the camera into some mode I have no idea how to get out of it. Like manual focus.

Although I have had a love affair with the M camera from 1972 that is not the reason I bought a M8. I bought it because of the images it can produce "IF I" do the work to capture those images. Romantic, Me, I don't think so. At least that is not what others say about me about anything.

Again clearly the M8 is not for you, just like it is not for Barjohn.

So I ask If you have no desire to own a M8 why are you on the M8 forum.

I have no desire to own a Nikon D3 or D700 or whatever model Nikon DSLR or Canon DSLR cameras so I don't go to the Nikon or Canon forums spewing bile about those camera and touting the M8.

Have a nice day and good luck with whatever camera system you like using.

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The G9 also has so many buttons and option and the button are so close together that it is almost imposible, for me, to use in anything other then Auto/P mode and I'm always hitting one of those button that throws the camera into some mode I have no idea how to get out of it.

 

That's because the G9 isn't a 'primitive' camera. The previous poster used the word 'primitive' in a negative sense, but I'd argue that this very primitiveness is one of the camera's strengths and part of what gives it its USP.I'm not talking about image quality here.The fact that almost everything is under the photographer's control means that it upto him/her to get it right. I'd never claim that such a camera could ever be mainstream these days, there are lots and lots of clone like automated cameras for people who prefer to go down that route.

 

One of the things that attrached me to Leica more than 10 years ago (yes it was only 10 years ago, maybe 11 at a push) was the knowledge that if there was a problem with a photograph, then it was _my_ fault not the camera's, _my_ lack of skill, not that of an anonymous programmer sat in an office on the other side of the world.

 

I really can't be bothered to refute the negatives posted by the earler poster. Partly because I'm sick and tired of doing so again and again, and partly because at the end of the day it's a personal choice. It's not a religion (not withstanding some of the comment you hear from time to time), no one's going to die if someone thinks it's a pile of pooh. It's a camera, we use it to take photographs. What really matters are the photographs - ok, what 'ought' to matter are the photographs. Some of us prefer to use rangefinders for this process, others prefer SLRs. there's room for both.

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Focus on subject then shoot, check image, F%&%$#@%^% out of focus, try again,

Second shot much better,however zoomed on image, not that good, try again.

 

User error - camera not suitable for prospective buyer - next case:rolleyes:

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User error - camera not suitable for prospective buyer - next case:rolleyes:

Quite. A bit like the old aviation ground engineer's technical log entry, in response to a pilot complaining about landing quality: 'Autoland not fitted to this aircraft'

 

I don't really understand the point of posts like that. The M8 is not, and was not intended to be, an automatic point-and-shoot camera. It is what it was intended to be, the first digital M series camera.

Yes it could be better in some respects, and I'm sure many of us have our own list of features and improvements we'd like to see, which no doubt we eventually will on a future M8 or subsequent model.

Equally I'm sure that there are many of us who are happy with the current model in the meantime.

 

Only two-months until photokina '08, when perhaps we'll get our first official glimpse of the future according to Leica Camera AG.

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