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I Hate To Bring This Up But...how Much Longer For New Firmware?


barjohn

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Any camera today is a computer with an image sensor and a lens. Therefore, any camera company has to have excellent software developers able to rapidly produce high quality software. So far, it seems to me that Leica lacks the fundamental capability. It takes far too long to develop what are effectively very small increments of improvements and bug fixes just plain seem to allude them. The company's refusal to add software features that customers have requested, even when doing so would be relatively easy (low hanging fruit) further compounds the image of incompetence. Since I run major software development efforts I know what can be done and the reasonable time frames for execution. Sorry guys if you are reading this but I would have fired you along time ago.

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Since I run major software development efforts I know what can be done and the reasonable time frames for execution. Sorry guys if you are reading this but I would have fired you along time ago.

 

And, how much do you know about this particular software/hardware system? Yes, I, too, have been in this game since '78; the hardest software I did were the embedded systems where bytes were precious, and clock cycles counted and my ability to do base-16 math in my head was still there.

 

I would not fire them until I understood what the problems were, and what (if any) manpower was focused on finding solutions to the problems.

 

Just my 0.02c.

 

JohnS.

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New firmware was promised months ago. It seems like I read a few threads that said it was being tested; however, the silence has been deafening since. Things like improved JPGs, SDHC support, more bug fixes, possibility to separate rewind from shutter action, improved high ISO performance and possibly other features.

 

Maybe the focus for the software development team is only on the new M9 or other new cameras and M8 has been deemed good enough. No communications as usual?:confused:

 

The new firmware contains the 6-bit codes for the new lenses, so I wouldn't expect to see it released prior to the new lenses. In other words, at or around Photokina.

 

If the new firmware didn't contain the 6-bit codes and cyan correction for the new lenses, I would be surprised. The new lenses are probably also out with the Beta testers, along with the firmware.

 

Robert

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JohnS,

 

I have been doing software work since '63 before we even had an assembler or compiler and had to do work in Boolean equations. I have worked on just about every type of software development be it micro-code, assembly language, firmware, compiler languages like FORTRAN and object oriented languages like Object Oriented Pascal and more.

 

I realize that they may have a few good coders in the group but when a development team takes 3-5 months to put out a point release and it only fixes one thing and adds no new features, then maybe this team needs to be replaced.

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John, as a developer you must know that what the user sees as being changed, and what lies under the covers are two different things.

 

I've made changes to programs, and to the user hardly anything seems to have changed. However the actual code changes have been dramatic and involved week's of work.

 

I imagine that something as 'simple' as changing the AWB is _far_ more complicated than it may appear to the person who loads the firmware.

 

Apparently Leica do not have huge teams of programmers working on their firmware. In fact I'm guessing that firmware is _very_ complicated to write. You are trying to get the best 'bang per buck' possible from a limited amount of processing power and memory, while at the smle time trying not to inadvertently screw up anything else by accident.

 

How often do the big guys release new firmware? I can't remember when Canon last released new firmware for my 5D.

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Point taken <grin>, but heck, Leica are already up to 1.2!

 

Full list of changes in the 5D firmware...

 

  1. It now supports high-capacity CF cards.
  2. It allows the latest lens names to be recorded in the Exif information of images taken.
  3. It adds lenses that are compatible with the Digital Photo Professional 3.2 lens aberration correction function.

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I realize that they may have a few good coders in the group but when a development team takes 3-5 months to put out a point release and it only fixes one thing and adds no new features, then maybe this team needs to be replaced.

 

The new firmware contains the 6-bit codes for the new lenses, so I wouldn't expect to see it released prior to the new lenses. In other words, at or around Photokina.

 

If the new firmware didn't contain the 6-bit codes and cyan correction for the new lenses, I would be surprised. The new lenses are probably also out with the Beta testers, along with the firmware.

 

Delays in firmware release may not be fault of the engineering team at all. As Rob points to in his post, code relases aren't always tied to the code actually being complete. The software world in which I work ties releases to dates that make the most sense from a marketing perspective. Usually this means the developers are racing to the finish line to get everything done before that date, however I have worked on more than one title that was in the can well before its release.

 

 

-J.

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OK, Rob, your use of the word "lenses" suggests more than 1. What are you betting on?

 

Something wide and fast. Maybe even something just plain fast :)

 

Leica may not have the sensor technology, but they can make up for ISO in fast lenses.

 

Don't you find your f2.8 Nikon zooms slow comapred to f1 or 1.4 primes?

 

Robert

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As anectdotal evidence to support Johns point, I worked at a software company where our product had a major bug for over a year, with repeated point updates to address the ever reoccuting bug. Eventually me and a friend decided to fix it ourselves. Armed with only a dissasembler, we traced the bug in the compilled code. In one afternoon we isolated the bug and came up with a fix. We where told it didn't matter as our company had a contract with the original developers and they woulndt use our code. Six months later and frustrated customers and tech support employees, we released and different version if the software all together that was bloated and required another purchase by our customers.

 

Perhaps all that is needed is a fresh look at the problem by someone not convinced it us already being worked on or isn't fixable in a reasonable time frame.

 

Mario

 

JohnS,

 

I have been doing software work since '63 before we even had an assembler or compiler and had to do work in Boolean equations. I have worked on just about every type of software development be it micro-code, assembly language, firmware, compiler languages like FORTRAN and object oriented languages like Object Oriented Pascal and more.

 

I realize that they may have a few good coders in the group but when a development team takes 3-5 months to put out a point release and it only fixes one thing and adds no new features, then maybe this team needs to be replaced.

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What I heard todat from a Leica rep is, that they will bring soon a FW update for the M8 which will allow the usage of SDHC.

 

Maybe they are going to combine this with the new lenses released soon (I think at PK2008) and might want to wait for that?

 

So the time window is from say August till November 2008 - just my guess.

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Perhaps all that is needed is a fresh look at the problem by someone not convinced it's already being worked on or isn't fixable in a reasonable time frame.

Very nice!

This reminds me about a quote from Einstein:

"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them"

 

I'm not at al trying to defend anything or anybody, but I believe this to be true also:

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new"

 

And the last one to complete it and to make it all sound like pop music:

"Any fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius-and a lot of courage-to move in the opposite direction"

 

/Henrik

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.....

 

And the last one to complete it and to make it all sound like pop music:

"Any fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius-and a lot of courage-to move in the opposite direction"

 

/Henrik

 

Nikon D3 and then D700? :eek:

(Anti-flame suit ready)

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Don't you find your f2.8 Nikon zooms slow comapred to f1 or 1.4 primes?

 

I don't find them slow from an exposure point of view because the D3 is at least 3 stops better than the M8 in terms of noise. In terms of depth of field, well, I have the 28/1.4, 35/1.4 AIS, 50/1.2 AIS and the 85/1.4. None of them are up to, say, the 50/1.4 ASPH but they meet a need. The 50/1.2 has a bit of Noctilux look about it plus of course its wider field of view.

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JohnS,

 

I have been doing software work since '63 before we even had an assembler or compiler and had to do work in Boolean equations. I have worked on just about every type of software development be it micro-code, assembly language, firmware, compiler languages like FORTRAN and object oriented languages like Object Oriented Pascal and more.

 

I realize that they may have a few good coders in the group but when a development team takes 3-5 months to put out a point release and it only fixes one thing and adds no new features, then maybe this team needs to be replaced.

 

Sorry John,

 

I don't understand you! By a simple google search, you see serious file format differences between files stored on SD and SDHC cards, futhermore new attributes like DRM (we all like MS ;-) ) have to be handled or ignored .. The far distant view gain is 3-4 bit more address space or about 4.5 - 6 years at current memory capacity "inflation" rate, on seen on closer distance, the gain is almost zero - in my view.

 

Your US westcoast "fire and hire" or "hire and fire" strategy might not be workable in west Europe or for Leica, and might also not be good/worable for software dependability.

 

My .02 Swiss Francs ;-)

 

Svend

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Apparently, and I am guessing, their return to Jenoptiks for software work after taking it over internally may mean that Leica did just that (i.e. fire their developers). Further, I realize that they may not be able to fire their developers because of German or EU rules which may also explain the low productivity which is the real point of my statement. I know with my teams we hire carefully and we have a two year probationary period during which we can terminate an employee if we are not satisfied. Afterward it becomes extremely hard to terminate an employee and there poor performance must be documented and the employee given an opportunity to remedy his or her performance.

 

I fail to see your point on the SD vs SDHC support. I would hope that Leica engineers knew the difference before they included it in their published specifications. They have had two years to change the specifications if they made a mistake and haven't so what is your point?

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