M8 Eyecup – Making a Prototype

[Fotogo]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Tim,

I can assure you that my M8 has no rubberized ring on the eyepiece, and I can't in fact remember it ever having had one, even when new.

Does anyone know how to find a replacement?

Thanks, Howard

 

Howard, here are a couple photos of my M8 eye piece rubber cover and the eyepiece with the cover removed. If your camera shipped without the rubber ring, then you will easily see the three mounting screws and indexing channel on the left side. I am sure Leica has more if you need one through Germany or New Jersey or even your dealer. Or, you can put my Eye Cup in its place when you are ready!

 

Sorry for the poor snapshots here. Note the adhesive residue. The adhesive helps hold the rubber ring in place. It is quite thin and nearly fooled me into thinking there was not one there! Also, I had already removed one screw when I took the photo. I disassembled the eyepiece to take dimensions for the Eye Cup.

 

 

[GarethC]

How would it work if you wanted to take a photo in portrait orientation?

 

Just a guy who's never used one thinking too much....................

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[hankg]

How would it work if you wanted to take a photo in portrait orientation?

 

Just a guy who's never used one thinking too much....................

 

oops, Now that you mention it that would make the Hasselblad style eyecup for a square format camera that doesn't need to be flipped 90 deg. I posted an image of out of the question. Also some rotate the camera down some up so you don't now if the business end of the cup that is at the top of the view port in Tim's images winds up shielding the light on the outside of your face or scrunched up against your nose.

 

I guess a small circular cup would be best if you have to rotate the camera with the cup pressed to your face. Something smooth would make it easy - nothing to scrunch up (Olympus):

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

some bigger cups from Nikon and Canon:

 

[Fotogo]

Great idea. I tried the Leica goodies cup and it was useless as an eyecup.

 

Only comment. Does it need to be so large? If yes for functional reasons I can live with it for the benefit.

 

If you did make left and right eye versions then it would not have to be symetrical? It looks like the symmetrical design would interfere with your nose. Something more like the old Hassy eyecup:

 

[ATTACH]93493[/ATTACH]

 

Hank Graber and Tony C, I have acted on your comments and I have reduced the overall dimensions. The same curvature or cup shape is retained, but with a narrower profile as viewed from the front or back. I actually had not considered the effects of the cupping when I first used my finger width as the basic rule for setting the overall dimensions. Of course the cupping shape serves to block peripheral light and the cup does not to need extend laterally, so far away from the eyepiece.

 

I removed about 4 to 5 mm around the circumference as viewed from the front or rear of the camera. I also removed material from the lower left corner where my nose would hit it, so less material there means more room for our noses. (well mine anyway)

 

Let me know if this fits your design intent as well.

 

 

[Vieri]

Hello Tim,

 

looks good - still, I think that doesn't address vertical shooting, though, as someone pointed out above. Maybe is not as effective or maybe is not what you intend to do, but did you consider a circular shape? That would take care of left-eyed, vertical shooting turning the camera up or down, all at the same time. Just my .02

[hankg]

Thanks Tim,

 

As was raised up thread. For portrait mode I am right eyed and like to rotate the camera so that the shutter is above my eye and the viwefinder at the bottom. That would put the shade squashed up against my nose. For a 35mm or 645 camera it seems your options are much more restricted then for square format or cinema/video camera that never gets flipped at 90 degree angle.

 

It looks like the nose is going to scrunch up against the cup in both positions. Forgive the crude illustration but my nose rests against the left side of the camera so anything extending to the left would be a problem.

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[Tony C.]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Hi Tim,

 

Thanks for the update. I think that your current design is a big step in the right direction. The issue raised about vertical shooting is legitimate, though I don't believe that a simple round cup such as the one shown by Hank is the answer.

 

My experience leads me to suggest that the best solution might be something along the following lines. A round cup with a single wing – similar to the one in shown below. I say this for several reasons. First, by far the most important source of light to block (or reduce) is that which comes from the left periphery (when using the left eye), or right (when using the right eye). This is because the nose acts as a natural light blocker, as does the orbit above the eye. So when pressed up against a round cup, the main problem area, so to speak, is that one peripheral side. Therefore, only one wing may be required.

 

If the design were to include a plastic core which would screw into the viewfinder (or a magnifier), then the rubber piece could be made rotate freely and the wing could be placed wherever the user chose, depending on whether the camera was being used vertically or horizontally, with the left eye or right, etc.

 

 

[hankg]

 

If the design were to include a plastic core which would screw into the viewfinder (or a magnifier), then the rubber piece could be made rotate freely and the wing could be placed wherever the user chose, depending on whether the camera was being used vertically or horizontally, with the left eye or right, etc.

 

 

Free rotation might work. Once planted against your face the eyecup might stay while the camera rotated and it could be spun for left or right eye users. It would need a little resistance so it was not spinning to easily. The wing design does cut much more light. Alternately you could have detents every 90 degrees and pull cup to release turn until next detent snaps in position.

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

[carstenw]

Hmm, you could also build in a little accelerometer and a motor, and have it automatically rotate to the correct position. Oops, no wait, that was the Canon patent application I was reading, not my notes.

 

I prefer Hanks last image. Round. Perfect.

[Fotogo]

After adding all these accessories (the eyecup, thumbs up, grip, extra view finder for WA lens, etc.), M8 won't be a little camera any more.

 

How about another baseplate with additional battery compartment? Just kidding.

 

-tanka

 

Tanka, I am guilty as charged for loading up the M8 with accessories. I enjoy the camera so much, and I get a lot of pleasure from these design projects and meeting the expectations of so many Leica users. It is easy to look at each project individually and not cumulatively. Still, the M8 is nowhere near the popular DLSR’s in size and does not bristle with buttons as they do. While keeping my designs minimal and “close to the camera”, so to speak, I have tried to maintain that compact feeling and appearance. I like this smaller appearance of the M8 and hope I can keep with the tradition. I hope you can agree once this Eye Cup project reaches completion.

 

Carsten (sir), many thanks to you for alerting me to the camera bag utility problem. I did not think that through as I should have. In fact, my Eye Cup design attaches in the same way as the original Leica M8 protective rubber ring. With this design idea, of course there will be much more leverage to pull the Eye Cup from the camera. For that reason and because of your comment I am completely rethinking the method of attachment. To better address your point, I agree with you that it is essential that the Eye Cup be convenient as well as serve its purpose. I look forward to your further comment when I have a chance to show version 21. Thanks for drawing my attention to that important issue about handling in and out of the camera bag.

 

Bradley, Your comment about light and contrast is just what I found when using an eye cup on my Nikon as I mentioned earlier. It seems with an eye cup in place, my eyes were not competing for the light from the image and it was easier to keep both eyes open while composing the shot. (listen to me, I sound like a photographer!) That is the essence of setting up the shot with the Leica in my opinion, to keep both eyes open as much as I can.

Vieri, Hank Graber, Tony C., Didn’t you guys get the memo? There will be no vertical shooting allowed by the firmware after July 20.

OK, that is not true. What is true is that you have pointed out some conspicuous flaws in my design premise. For that I am most grateful. I have started the next version of the design, number 21, and will cover all the details as soon as I can with more 3D models.

 

I certainly agree that portrait shots are as important as any other. Tony, I must disagree with you about the nose blocking light on the left side of the camera. In my own situation I find it actually reflects light into my eye if I am shooting in daylight. The Eye Cup need not be too big on the left side, but some part of the Eye Cup blocking those rays on the left side of the camera is going to help me a lot. As for the asymmetry of the Eye Cup, I still support the non-round shape as I feel it will simply block more light, even if the overall size is cut down. I will drop in one more image in here to show the relative reduction in size compared to the initial offering.

 

I will now redesign my Eye Cup attachment method. I want to avoid using the threads of the M8 eyepiece since they may be needed for a magnifier or Diopter lens. Also. I do not want to reduce the diameter of the viewfinder opening, which would restrict the image. I will provide the ability to rotate the Eye Cup left or right 90 degrees. The rotation will be indexed. The original M8 rubber ring will stay in place. I think there are many who would object to removing it for any reason. Stay tuned for Eye Cup ver 21. This will incorporate most of the points we have discussed here.

 

Many thanks for the thoughtful comments and great diagrams. I know those takes time to write and to create!

 

 

This image shows the relative size of the Eye Cup I will work with at this point.The previous version is transparent.

[earleygallery]

Will this fit earlier film M's? If not how about a 'classic' version - I'd buy it for my M2.

[ljclark]

Why not make an adapter to accept Off The Shelf eye cups from other manufacturers?

 

Olympus makes several for their E-series DSLRs (except the E-1). They vary in width/height, and the depth of the cup, so eyeglass wearers can select the model that gets their eye closer to the VF...And I'm sure they aren't the only camera company you can tap.

 

Olympus EP-6

 

Olympus EP-7

 

Olympus EP-5

[Fotogo]

Hi Tim!

 

I've just started using a MegaPerls 1.15x magnifier (which I'm never removing - it's brilliant!): will your eyecup fit over the magnifier (let me know if you need exact dimensions)?

 

Rich,

Yes, you can use your Mega Perls magnifier with my proposed M - Eye Cup. I will be using one too!

 

James,

Yes, my Eye Cup design is for all Leica M cameras with the standard M12 x 0.5 thread, which is most of the M series. I am sure one of our experts here on the older M's will advise us on this point. My own experience goes back to M3.

 

Ljclark,

You are right sir, there are a multitude of aftermarket eye cups available. With the properly designed adapter / bracket I imagine most could be made to fit a Leica. You may have noticed however, the round Leica viewfinder base with the round threaded perimeter that accepts Diopter and magnifier lenses on your Leica. For many Leica photographers, these accessories are essential. The round shape has been a standard of Leica for their entire history I believe on M series cameras.

 

Converting and eye cup from an Olympus to fit my M8 somehow does not ring true for me particularly because I enjoy refining designs and optimizing their function. The plastic rectangular framed viewfinders that are prevalent on many DLSR’s were never designed with a minimal approach as we find on any part of a Leica camera. The inherent bulkiness of a DSLR provides ample space for a variety of,well, rather bulky accessories. With our Leica rangefinders, a good part of the challenge is to not only fit an accessory to an already compact and tidy design, but to try to retain, in my opinion, the original design intent started at Solms. I hope I can get it right and I enjoy the effort of trying very much.

 

Carsten,

You and a few others have made me feel I have gone down another short road and should reconsider a new route. The temptation of the round shape is there. It is simple and compact. It is easier to fabricate the mold, and, right to the point, the round shape is very Leica like. So, I have started again with another approach and have a round design for your consideration. It has dawned on me (light bulb on finally) that I can produce more than one Eye Cup diameter or shape to fit a variety of users. The round design depicted here is about as small as it can be and still make sense to me. Note: the PLAY button is obscured, but easily reached behind the Eye Cup. All comments eagerly accepted with gratitude. I feel I am Closer…many thanks to all

 

Hank Graber,

You finally have my attention sir. Sorry to have been a little stubborn but now I am looking at the round shape with a better perspective. The round version I show here should block most stray light for most photographers. I may produce two or three diameters if needed. The one shown is a small as I think we can go, and still make it work. I look forward to your comment Hank.

 

 

Here is my latest offering, and I think may just be close to the final. It is as small as I think I can go, and still provide the original function the Eye Cup should provide.

 

 

 

[hankg]

 

Hank Graber,

You finally have my attention sir. Sorry to have been a little stubborn but now I am looking at the round shape with a better perspective. The round version I show here should block most stray light for most photographers. I may produce two or three diameters if needed. The one shown is a small as I think we can go, and still make it work. I look forward to your comment Hank.

 

 

Here is my latest offering, and I think may just be close to the final. It is as small as I think I can go, and still provide the original function the Eye Cup should provide.

 

That's looking more M like. It maybe that it's better to get 80 or 90% of the function but have the advantage of a much simpler design. With the wide variety of facial shapes and shooting styles you are shooting for an average anyway. I'd suggest 2 sizes one larger for the best performance and one smaller for those that want the most minimalist appendage even if it gives up a little in function.

 

You might want to pick up a couple of existing cups like the round Nikon I used for my illustration and see how effective they are in actual use with and without glasses. Until you try a couple of sizes in real world testing you won't know how small or large you can get away with.

[ljclark]

Ljclark,

You are right sir, there are a multitude of aftermarket eye cups available. With the properly designed adapter / bracket I imagine most could be made to fit a Leica. You may have noticed however, the round Leica viewfinder base with the round threaded perimeter that accepts Diopter and magnifier lenses on your Leica. For many Leica photographers, these accessories are essential. The round shape has been a standard of Leica for their entire history I believe on M series cameras.

 

Converting and eye cup from an Olympus to fit my M8 somehow does not ring true for me particularly because I enjoy refining designs and optimizing their function. The plastic rectangular framed viewfinders that are prevalent on many DLSR’s were never designed with a minimal approach as we find on any part of a Leica camera. The inherent bulkiness of a DSLR provides ample space for a variety of,well, rather bulky accessories. With our Leica rangefinders, a good part of the challenge is to not only fit an accessory to an already compact and tidy design, but to try to retain, in my opinion, the original design intent started at Solms. I hope I can get it right and I enjoy the effort of trying very much.

 

 

Please bear in mind that the Olympus EP6 eyecup (one of the bigger ones), when mounted, rises no higher than the cold shoe on the Thumbs Up 1 CS, extends to the rear no more than the TU 1 CS, and extends to the left no more than the left extreme of the M8 body.

 

I don't have experience with correction lenses on the Leica, but if, when they screw in, the extend no farther out than the flange of the stock eye-ring, there will be no problem. If they do extend -- that would be different.

[Tony C.]

Hi Tim –

 

While I don't doubt that I will be happy with your final design, let me add a couple of other points. There is a reason why high-end binocular companies such as Swarovski offer a "winged" eye-shade as an alternative to the standard round cups: they block more peripheral light. Put another way, the eye socket is not round, but rather oblong. Now, if you prefer the round design for ease of manufacturing and/or cost issues, then I understand fully. But I would not expect such a design to be quite as effective.

 

Secondly, I believe that it is important to take the following rather subtle factor into account. Whichever design you ultimately choose, it may be important to avoid one which creates too tight of a seal. That may seem counter-intuitive, as a tight seal would imply no light, but I say that because with a tight seal there is the very real danger of the lens clouding up due to humidity. It happens with binoculars at times, depending on the atmospheric conditions, coupled with the tightness of the eye-cup seal.

 

Thanks for your continued efforts!

 

All the best,

[Rogwp]

Hi Tim

 

Would your design allow for the use of Luigi's half case?

 

Roger

[Fotogo]

Please bear in mind that the Olympus EP6 (one of the bigger ones), when mounted, rises no higher than the cold shoe on the Thumbs Up 1 CS, extends to the rear no more than the TU 1 CS, and extends to the left no more than the left extreme of the M8 body.

 

I don't have experience with correction lenses on the Leica, but if, when they screw in, the extend no farther out than the flange of the stock eye-ring, there will be no problem. If they do extend -- that would be different.

 

LJClark,

Thanks again for your interest in this project. It sounds as if the Olympus EP6 eye cup is about the same size as my latest design version, so it is not so bulky as I previously thought.

 

Hank Graber,

The compact look good in my opinion too. The way I am designing the base will allow for different sizes as you mentioned.

 

Tony C.,

I may not include a winged style on my first design. I feel that with the camera body will provide some of the light blocking that the wing style design would also serve. I will be able to provide different Eye Cup shapes should my initial compact shape prove to need to block even more light.

 

You raised an interesting factor about the fogging behind a tight fitting eyecup. Again, I believe the smaller shape may offer a good solution and a smaller Eye Cup size may trap less humid air. When using binoculars, I too found this fogging problem to sometimes occur. It seemed to happen more often when my own exhaled breath found its way up around the eyecup. I learned to exhale quickly to avoid that phenomenon with my Trinovids.

 

Roger,

Your point is an important one. I use a Luigi case myself, but I find that my latest compact Eye Cup shape will most likely rub against my Luigi case. Of course the EyeCup will deflect to some extent, and probably still be useful, but it looks as if it will be difficult to avoid this contact. To remain completely free and clear of the Luigi Case, I would have to pull the Eye Cup base back away from the camera too much, and it would restrict the use of the viewfinder in that case. I will be looking more at a solution to this problem. Most likely going back to an asymmetric shape would solve the problem best of all. Thanks for your insightful comment.

[Vieri]

Roger,

Your point is an important one. I use a Luigi case myself, but I find that my latest compact Eye Cup shape will most likely rub against my Luigi case. Of course the EyeCup will deflect to some extent, and probably still be useful, but it looks as if it will be difficult to avoid this contact. To remain completely free and clear of the Luigi Case, I would have to pull the Eye Cup base back away from the camera too much, and it would restrict the use of the viewfinder in that case. I will be looking more at a solution to this problem. Most likely going back to an asymmetric shape would solve the problem best of all. Thanks for your insightful comment.

 

Maybe you could keep the round shape and have just the mounting system done asymmetrically - leaving just slightly more than a 180' connection and having the eyecup sliding in from the top might be able to give you the room you need for the Luigi on the bottom side of the eyecup. Just my .02 of course.

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Samir Jahjah]

You last design will make it difficult hitting the play button!