M8 & Pro Wedding photography

[sean_reid]

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For some, myself included (and Sean I'm assuming), a rangefinder system provides a different sensory input for the eye and the brain. Compare an SLR to binoculars, whereas the rangefinder is the naked eye. Some people need the binoculars, and some prefer to see the whole vista at once. It's a creative choice.

 

That's absolutely true and its a point I've tried to make since I reviewed the Epson R-D1 in 2004. RF cameras certainly are not best for everyone but I'm very glad that there are at least two DRFs on the market for those of us who shoot digital and prefer rangefinder cameras.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[pascal_meheut]

+1, "the different sensory input" is exactly the reason why I prefer a rangefinder even if I use SLRs too.

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[lxlim]

I think, what a lot of people forget (including Ned there) is that the "beauty" in the images (whether they're created by an M8, M7 or Canon 5D, Nikon D3 etc.) is in the eye of the customer.

....

Dave

 

and those who view the images and re-lived those moments with them. The isn't a better testimony than those who witnessed and can say that the photographer was great.

 

If he/she was using a leica ..... maybe that helps a little Frankly I didn't realise how much Leica has impacted on the photography world until I started using the M8. Bought it to solve unacceptable AF issues and I get amateurs armed with Nikon D3 giving way to me when I was angling for position. Puzzling and quite amusing.

 

I must say that the M8 certainly fulfills my intended deployment but until now I can't get myself use it to complement my DSLR in event coverage. My hat is off to those can and do cover weddings and events with the rangefinder. Whenever I view the M8 images next those of the 1D... sigh!

[Michael Tyler]

I noticed an article about Ascough sometime ago when he was using Leicas and was truly impressed when I went over to see his work. Since that first look, he switched over to Canons and, honestly, it doesn't seem to compare with what he did with the Ms.

 

I'm a Ascough junkie and I've followed his work for quite a while. With his M6's, as I understand, he used fewer focal lengths, and used the 50 a whole lot. When poor b&w film processing pushed him into Canon digital territory, he started using his trusty 28-70 at first, but then he got a 16-35 and all of a sudden he was going for extreme wide-angle shots. It was odd for me to see, but it makes total sense knowing his style of "scene setting" with a single shot.

 

I think you may be reacting to the use of that lens. The perspective is quite strange and not as transparent to us photographers - I think we see the lens effect before we see the subject it's capturing. But I bet his clients love it.

 

Also bear in mind, when he was shooting with M6's his website still showed some of his older work with Canon 1n's. So this really shouldn't be a RF vs. SLR question, but one of focal length.

 

All of this info is second-hand. I don't know the man personally, so anyone correct me if they know better.

[Evad1962]

To each his own... But the market doesn't lie. Millions of DSLRs sold and 99% wedding shooters use DSLRs as their main system around the globe. Doesn't get much more perfect then that, IMO.

 

But yeah, this is a M8 forum so the overprotection is to be expected.

 

Well, I'm one of the proud one percenters not using a DSLR to shoot weddings professionally. Never have actually - I went straight from film rangefinders (Contax G2) & the Leica R system (film) to the M8 (with lots of practice before diving head-on into a wedding using the M8 exclusively, which is what I now do). I thought this thread needed some photos (for illustrative purposes obviously) to show what the M8 can help produce when used as a pro wedding camera - APOLOGIES TO DIAL-UP USERS, but I couldn't work out the 'link to the photo forum' technique.

 

Most images from the M8 with Zeiss biogon 35/2 with the silhouette shot with a Leica Pre-Asph 90 cron. This sunrise wedding was from early April this year at Cronulla (southern coastal suburb of Sydney).

 

Cheers

Evad

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[Evad1962]

...and a couple more...

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[Agent M10]

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Michael, you might be right, but I think it might be a combination of things. His previous work seemed to have that available light magic and, frankly, his current work seems rather flat.

 

Personally, since I've picked up the M I've had a harder time using an SLR. Sure I'm competent at it, but it's kind of like washing my feet with my socks on.

 

Ascough is doing quite well and is very pleased with his digital SLR set up so more power to him (and his clients).

[Michael Tyler]

Michael, you might be right, but I think it might be a combination of things. His previous work seemed to have that available light magic and, frankly, his current work seems rather flat.

 

Personally, since I've picked up the M I've had a harder time using an SLR. Sure I'm competent at it, but it's kind of like washing my feet with my socks on.

 

Ascough is doing quite well and is very pleased with his digital SLR set up so more power to him (and his clients).

 

This is wading into very subjective waters, but I agree with the use of the word "flat." I can pick out some his Canon shots, mostly because of the focal length compression, but there is a sense of flatness to some of them. My eye notices it because I'm currently mixing a Canon body with my M8 at weddings. Last Saturday saw an 80/20 mix of Leica/Canon. I'm still loving my beater 50mm 1.4, which is wicked sharp at 2.8, but yes there is still a flatness to the files regardless of shooting conditions and identical processing.

 

I recall Mr. Ascough once saying of the M8 that he was glad to be getting back to a proper camera. Cheers to that, but he abandoned it quickly for professional work because of the reliability issues. As I understand it, he shoots with one body, and listed his reasons for sticking with Canon as: dual card slots, doesn't break down, noiseless images in low light. Given that he photographs for the British rich and famous, and given his conservative stance on equipment, his attitude makes perfect sense.

 

I put the Canon on my other shoulder for backup, and for quick action shots (16-35 and 50 are my two most used lenses). But the Leica has let me step up my creative side, and that to me is worth the small chance of it locking up under pressure.

[Riccis]

I recall Mr. Ascough once saying of the M8 that he was glad to be getting back to a proper camera. Cheers to that, but he abandoned it quickly for professional work because of the reliability issues. As I understand it, he shoots with one body, and listed his reasons for sticking with Canon as: dual card slots, doesn't break down, noiseless images in low light. Given that he photographs for the British rich and famous, and given his conservative stance on equipment, his attitude makes perfect sense.

 

 

I don't want to speak on behalf of Jeff, but you are correct, he bought 2 M8s at the end of last year and was very excited to get back into shooting with rangefinders. Unfortunately, he got the nasty green streak in a lot of his first test shots and that was enough for him to not use M8s in his professional work (he still uses it for his personal work you see on his blog).

 

I haven't chatted with him for a few months but it looks like he is now sponsored by Canon... I am a big fan of his work regardless of his choice of tools. He is also a very nice guy with an amazing knowledge of post-processing (IMHO, his actions are one of the best in the market).

 

Once again, I am humbled by the kind comments about my work, thank you. I use rangefinders since they are the perfect complement to my shooting style and way of seeing a wedding. I love shooting Ms for their simplicity, ability to shoot unobtrusively and footprint (can't beat that). While the M8 is not perfect, my work and the reason why my clients commission me has never been about having perfectly technical, grain-less images or my tools of choice (I also bring and shoot Holgas to a lot of my weddings, it doesn't get any crappier than that ).

 

Cheers,

[jsjxyz]

Amazing shots,

 

I want to add some more of my wedding images taken with M6 (90%) and a noctilux and 35 cron at

 

Wisman and Evelyn's Wedding: Our Prayer

[NB23]

The pics are nice. I understand and personally know and LOVE the M experience. I dislike shooting DSLRs and never do it except for my wedding work.

 

I guess I could show off pics that are impossible to replicate with a M8 but I won't go there. I only know that a DSLR does all what a M does and more.

Again: I am a Leica lover, but for weddings I guess I'm like the VAST majority and prefer tools that are more forgiving :-)

[Michael Tyler]

Once again, I am humbled by the kind comments about my work, thank you.

 

Yeah, it seems you're becoming the new Leica superstar around here. The cream rises to the top, as is said. By the way, I heard you've shot with Leigh Miller. I knew her when she was first getting into weddings. There's a lady whose talent skyrocketed - within a year she was doing better work than I was. Really sweet, humble person too.

[Riccis]

I guess I could show off pics that are impossible to replicate with a M8 but I won't go there. I only know that a DSLR does all what a M does and more.

Again: I am a Leica lover, but for weddings I guess I'm like the VAST majority and prefer tools that are more forgiving :-)

 

Ned - I know what you mean, but at least in my case I never used anything longer than 85 mm when I employed DSRLs for my wedding work. I actually shot complete weddings with a 35 mm, hence the move to Ms was perfect for me... Don't know what you mean by more forgiving tools, though...

 

Yeah, it seems you're becoming the new Leica superstar around here. The cream rises to the top, as is said. By the way, I heard you've shot with Leigh Miller. I knew her when she was first getting into weddings. There's a lady whose talent skyrocketed - within a year she was doing better work than I was. Really sweet, humble person too.

 

Michael - I don't know about the superstar thingy. Leigh is a great friend and we shoot together a few times per year. She was just here last month helping me shoot a Platinum Wedding. Like you stated, she is a great lady with an amazing talent.

 

Cheers,

[lxlim]

nice work, evad.

[Albert4321]

Leigh is a great friend and we shoot together a few times per year..

 

Cheers,

 

Is Leigh Miller a Leica shooter?

[sean_reid]

I just came home from a long wedding shoot with the M8 and the 5D. I must say, again, that I vastly prefer the former. The only real reason I pulled the 5D out of the bag today is that I got into some lighting situations where I needed ISO 1600 and 3200 files that I could absolutely count on. Otherwise...M8 for sure - even though the 5D is a fine camera.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[Michael Tyler]

Is Leigh Miller a Leica shooter?

 

No, she's just a mutual friend. Sorry, probably should have saved it for email.

[Evad1962]

nice work, evad.

 

thanks Ixlim!

 

Cheers,

Evad

[haroldnaaijer]

Made a picture yesterday at night in Estremoz, a small town in Portugal with a science museum that organized a great event called 'science in the streets'. The local priest complained about the event as it disturbed his procession for the local saint Santa Isabel. He called the scientific event 'a joke'. Some of his followers, most older ladies, showed their crosses to get rid of the evil. Portugal 2008. This picture is, to me, a great artistic and scientific answer to the priest...

 

The picture is taken around 23.30 hrs, poor streetlight and fill in flash of a Leica SF20, yes. No post production, just raw out of the camera.. At iso 640. Just to show that the M8 can be properly used in the dark...

 

Have a nice day,

Harold

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Jamie Roberts]

Well, I've been too busy shooting weddings to respond to comments here LOL!!

 

My trusty M8--which never failed at a wedding through thousands and thousands of shots--is MIA, and has been since about March. It just came back from its second trip to NJ. We'll see if it's focusing properly.

 

Anyone who's known me from the forum knows I love the M8, and have used it for a ton of work, both wedding and commercial. But it developed a stuck pixel (normal for 18 months of heavy use) and went into NJ for service. It came back backfocusing badly with all my lenses. Kindermann couldn't fix it; it was a mount or sensor issue. I sent it back to NJ with my two 50s: new Nocti and Lux ASPH which were fine before the initial fix.

 

I found out from Kindermann that my camera is back but the lenses went to Germany. Why--since they were focusing previously--I don't know.

 

So I've been M8-less for the main wedding season to date. I don't like it, because I miss the M8's handling so much. But the 5d and DMR (love the DMR's files, man) have been doing just fine in it's place.

 

And that's why I have backup. But there's no reason it should take from March to July to get a simple minor repair done. This is NOT a reliabillity issue, but a service issue, and Leica needs to fix this.

 

I'll let you know if it focuses properly when I go pick it up...

 

Now: onto weddings:

• I use a 90 f2.0 pre-Asph at weddings all the time. It rocks hard; with the 1.25x magnifier it's easy to focus. I can usually replace the Canon 70-200L 2.8 IS with the 90 'cron for reception speeches, some dancing closeups, etc... though like Riccis I also have a 75 Lux for when the lights go down..
  
• The most versatile flash for the DMR or the M8, IMO, is the Canon 580EX v2 set to auto sensor / manual mode (CF 5, IIRC). Just brilliant, doesn't look like flash, and works on both cameras without any intervening electronics.
  
• The M wide angles are superb, but everyone knows that
  
• It's true for me that the M makes me think differently than using the dSLR, and there's a margin of unpredictability in the precise framing that I find lovely, though for group formals I find myself gravitating to the 28 'cron ASPH, because the detail is just so good and the distortion so low. Doesn't matter who buys what or how many people buy X camera. The rangefinder is different, and makes different style images, IMO
  
• At least part of the thought difference is manual focus. I like manual focus a lot of the time, and using the DMR vs 5d is also very different (I didn't much use them together before the M8 went in for service).
  
• The 21 Elmarit M is great, but having shot a *lot* now with the 19 Elmarit R and the DMR, I actually prefer that for a "wider" wide (they're both cropped, of course). But it's a small difference, to be sure.
  
• I could do an entire wedding shoot, easily, with 2 M8s. But I do prefer to have something longer than 90 in the bag.

Sorry for the long post. @ Dave--glad to see you're getting to use the camera!