The Future for Film

[elansprint72]

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"If the next generation of shooters are mainly digital based then things do not bode well."

 

Why? Just a tool to do a job. Surely it is the result which matters, not the means?

 

Cheers,

Pete.

[treeplanter]

Why? Just a tool to do a job. Surely it is the result which matters, not the means?

 

Some people, such as myself, just prefer a silver-based image to digital (and I own both types of cameras).

 

Jim Bielecki

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[elansprint72]

Some people, such as myself, just prefer a silver-based image to digital (and I own both types of cameras).

 

Jim Bielecki

 

Jim,

I have a house full of film cameras but I will no longer use 35mm film when my small stock has run out. Medium and large format is a different kettle of worms.

 

Cheers,

Pete.

[nyrich]

Af far as 35mm is concerned, I think that we're already in a niche market. I don't shoot MF or LF so I really don't know about those formats.

 

Based on what I'm finding on the B&H and Adorama websites, they either stopped carrying certain films or the supply has been severly curtailed. I'm generally a B&H customer, but today I ordered 80 rolls of assorted films from Adorama as B&H was out of stock on several items.

[haris]

Manufacturers of film for some time now doing things next way: Manufacture some amount of film, and only when it is sold, they manufacture next bunch. That would be a way for making film with minimum lost...

 

How we are in niche market for 35mm film? As I know manufacturers discontinued some films, but films they continue to make they make in almost all sizes. Situation few months ago with Ilford for example was such that I was more afraid of dissapearing 120 format, 35mm was safe. And that impression I got from reading what one Ilford-Harman representative was telling. There was situation in which paper for 120 film was in danger, it looked like manufacturers of that paper could stop making it, and without paper there is no MF film, and in same time manufacturing of canisters for 35mm film was OK...

[fotohuis]

Rollei will introduce on the Photokina in Cologne a new B&W slide direct film, the new type Scala film but can be standard processed.

Further a new CN400 pro C41 film for scanning.

In 2007 a new CN700 pro film and a new CR200 pro slide silm (E6).

 

Indeed a small manufacturer but new types of film.

 

Best regards,

 

Robert

[Sandokan]

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Well at the moment I have only film cameras. However, I have managed to get through 11 rolls of film this month and the wife is most unhappy with the costs of this! The economics are now for the purchase of a digital back for the R9 (at this rate, pay back is just 1-2 years) - the bank balance hasnt caught up but I will be shooting much more conservatively over the next few months.

 

I believe film will be with us for a very long time and that many present day digital shooters will return to film and even those that never tried film before, will start and then fall in love with the process (sorry, that would be "workflow" for them).

 

My options are as follows:

1) use film very conservatively - take only a few snaps but make sure they work on the screen first. This is very much like when I had a 6x6 and spent minutes thinking about the picture first. I can live with this - but there is always the feeling that you let one slip away

2) Use B&W, process them myself, purchase a film scanner and scan them in, printing up only the best ones.

3) get my "photo shooting" fix with a DMR (and shoot many more photos than I do now) and use the M7 for street shooting and thinking photography.

 

I love film precisely because I get prints and can lay them out, make notes on what went wrong and how to improve and stick the good ones in an album. I will hate digital because I will spend so much extra time on a computer getting the colour balance right, rearranging the composition (and this will mean that I will probably start shooting with much more space around subjects expecting to work on them later) ... etc. etc.

[SteveYork]

Folks have been sounding the death knell of film for years now, and its still plenty available. It may become a nitch product, and surely that appeears to be the industry trend, but I don't believe its going away any time soon. Most movies are still shot on 35mm color film!

 

B&W will probably outlast color. If there's a demand someone will make it, even if it is not one of the current big suppliers.

 

It reminds me of the early 60's when there was speculation of the future of B&W film.

 

If in doubt, go buy up 100 rolls of your favorite and stick in your freezer. It'll last a long time.

[SteveYork]

Well, there are plenty of recording engineers these days who have never used analogue tape. And lots of electric guitar players who do not own an acoustic instrument. So I have no doubt that future photographers, amateur and professional, will mainly use digital cameras.

 

However, does that leave enough of a niche market amongst B/W diehards, art photographers, and stubborn old fogeys like me, for film production to survive, albeit at a very reduced level? Perhaps it can. After all, in the late 1970s it looked as if B/W was doomed as colour negative swept all aside in the mass market. And yet, against all expectation, you can still buy a roll of 120 HP5 in our local Jessops. And it still has the little numbers on the backing paper

 

John

 

 

Bad analogy with respect to guitars. There has been a huge renaissance of accustic playing in the last 15 years. More accoustic guitars from highend dealers have been made and sold in the last 15 years then the prior 50 years, and that includes the previous heydey of the 60's and 70's.

 

If there's a market, even if very small, someone will fill that need. There maybe not much choice, if any, as to the films, but I believe someone will be there take your money.

 

Film may become cost prohibitive when processing is calculated in before it disappears.

[leicajh]

Rollei will introduce on the Photokina in Cologne a new B&W slide direct film, the new type Scala film but can be standard processed.

Further a new CN400 pro C41 film for scanning.

In 2007 a new CN700 pro film and a new CR200 pro slide silm (E6).

 

Indeed a small manufacturer but new types of film.

 

Best regards,

 

Robert

What is the standard process for this new film? Thank you in advance. jh

[fotohuis]

AGFA SCALA NACHFOLGER mit einfacher Verarbeitung.

 

ROLLEI SLIDE DIRECT wird DIREKT im Rollei RHS/AM74/LP-Supergrain verarbeitet.

Bei korrekter Belichtung werden die Resultate sehr, sehr gut.

Neben der bildmässigen Qualität für die Vergrösserung, den Druck,

ist auch der neutrale schwarze Bildton sehr angenehm für die Projektion.

 

Qualitativ ist der ROLLEI SD (Slide Direct) einem SCALA überlegen! Er ist sogar

gleichwertig im Vergleich zu anderen Spezialfilmen, denn er löst im

ROLLEI RHS rund 360 Linienpaaare auf. Der SCALA vergleichsweise rund 120

unter pefekten Bedingungen.

Der ROLLEI SD ist damit nicht nur dem SCALA überlegen, sondern auch eine

ernstzunehmende Konkurrenz zu den hochauflösenden Spezialfilmen, die zumeist

nur in Kombination mit Spezialchemie angeboten werden.

 

Vor allem jedoch bestichent neben dem extrem feines Korn die hohen Tonwerte.

Wie der SCALA basiert die Emulsion auf einem glasklaren PET-Basisfilm, sogar

mit ANTI NEWTON / NO CURLING Rückseiten-Beschichtung für perfekte Planlage.

EINFACHSTE VERARBEITUNG wie ein Negativfilm (daher DIRECT) zum vergleichs-

weise sehr attraktiven Preis.

 

So a direct processing like a standard B&W negative film, without all the complicated steps involved like the Scala B&W slide film. Up to 360 ln/mm, processing in standard chemicals and PET filmbase with A.N. and N.C. layer.

Price indication: 135-36 around Eur. 6,00 (Will be also available in 120 roll film)

 

Photokina Cologne/Köln: Hal 10.2 booth D011

 

Also very interesting is the presence on the Photokina of Moersch (fine art chemicals), Kienzle (professional enlargers) and Heiland (Split grade, densitometers) on a common booth on the fair: Hal 5.1 booth E021.

All related to film and classical printing.

 

Small companies, putting their strenght together.

[Guest stnami]

Robert my German is crap, what are you rabbitting on about

[fotohuis]

Sorry, some quick translation:

 

Rollei SD (Slide Direct) for easy processing.

 

Rollei SD ist directly processed in the Rollei High Speed/AM74/LP-Supergrain developer.

With a correct exposure the results are very good. It can be used for quality enlargements and for a neutral black projection.

 

In Quality the Rollei SD is even better than the Scala. It's more or less equal with other special films (360 lines/mm in RHS, Scala will go up till 120 lines/mm). Therefore it can be competitive for the hiresolution special films (Micro films like Copex, Imagelink) who are offered often only with the special chemicals.

 

Rollei SD offers a very fine grain and a nice wide tone scale.The film is made on a clear PET base even with a special anti newton and non curling layer for a perfect flatness.

Easy processing like a negative film (That's why it's called Direct) for an attractive price.

 

Hopefully this helps a bit, from my crappy German, via Dutch to some English .

[stunsworth]

Interesting that they seem to be claiming to go directly from film to a positve image without any bleaching etc.

[fotohuis]

Yes it is.

Details I will see this week when I am in Cologne. Normally the reverse process is rather complicated and time consuming (e.g. Fomapan R100 reverse processing with the kit).

 

I thinks it's also a film meant for scanning purposes.

 

The same with this new CN400 pro film. Without the orange mask and specially meant for scanning I think. Price indication around Eur. 7,00 for the 135-36 film.

[Guest hammertone]

Details I will see this week when I am in Cologne. Normally the reverse process is rather complicated and time consuming

 

Please give us an update in case you learn more about this (very interesting) new film. Right now I do not understand how a standard BW process could yield slides.

 

Regards, Joachim

[langmjl1]

prior quote....."Most movies are still shot on 35mm color film"

 

IMHO...that is in large part due to the economics of distribution. How to and who will pay for the upgrade of distribution, storage, and prsentation of the digital movies. The theater owners see great advantages in digital but cant, or wont, be the sole investors in upgrading the technology.

[Lucklik]

One of my friend has bought a Panasonic camera. She went on holliday for 2 months and was very happy when she returned home with 6000 pictures. Howrever she is struggling for weeks now to sort the pictures. She has still 2000 pictures to go. She wants to keep about 200 pictures. She told me she wanted to go back to film beause it is much more easy. Normally she would have taken 10 or perhaps 15 films and had them develloped in a few days or even in 1 hour and glued them in an album within 2 weeks after returning from holliday.

rgs

Luc

[J Mitchum]

One of my friend has bought a Panasonic camera. She went on holliday for 2 months and was very happy when she returned home with 6000 pictures. Howrever she is struggling for weeks now to sort the pictures. She has still 2000 pictures to go. She wants to keep about 200 pictures. She told me she wanted to go back to film beause it is much more easy. Normally she would have taken 10 or perhaps 15 films and had them develloped in a few days or even in 1 hour and glued them in an album within 2 weeks after returning from holliday.

 

 

Why is it that I'm almost always satisfied with the prints I get back from my film camera yet I am never satisfied with the ones taken with my digital camera? I'll spend countless hours tweaking the images on the computer only to be overwhelmed and give up. There's something to be said for simplicity.

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[fotohuis]

I'll spend countless hours tweaking the images on the computer only to be overwhelmed and give up. QUOTE]

 

That's because you're a photographer, not a graphical engineer or an I.T. expert.

 

Perfect digital pictures need a wide knowledge of manipulations on curve fittings, profiles and knowledge of the photoshop program.

Especially in B&W the tonal range on some different films combined with the right developer and E.I. is hardly to imitate with a digital camera.

 

If you want to shoot an object how it is, without manipulations and corrections and you have no direct time pressure or hurry, photography on film is still a pleasure to do if you're choosing the right type of film in one of the best camera tools you can get: Leica.

It's really a pity that a lot of people of the new young generation will never known how it is to shoot on film, develop it and print it on a fine art way on some baryt paper.

 

Hopefully more people all over the world can share in this opinion so that classical film and photo paper has some future because then the manufacturing of it is still interesting for some specialized companies.

(My 2 cents on this difficult subject )