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M8 Iraq field test - ouch...


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I read the review but not all of the pages and pages of comments here. I am a professional photographer and have replaced my Canon 5D and 1DMIII with two M8's. I'm very happy. It's all about the lenses for me. I used Leica M film cameras and am glad that Leica finally came out with a digital camera that can use my Leica M lenses. Sure, it has problems. All digital cameras have problems. The heat and blowing dust in Iraq would be death to any digital camera. I had to remove the base plate to change film, too, but at least the M8 will take the equivalent of about 15 rolls of photos before I have remove the base plate! The time between shots is no longer than it would take to wind the film for the next shot. With the M8's I don't have as many problems with chromatic aberrations and fringing as I do with even the best Canon L lenses. The only Canon lens that even approaches the Leica M ones is the 85/1.2 and it is huge. The M8 has all of the pluses and minuses of a rangefinder. When I compare the size, weight, noise, and obtrusiveness of the Canons to my M8s, there is no choice for me. The M8 is a perfectly reasonable choice for a professional documentary photographer.

 

Tina Manley

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As for the flak jacket - he posted a photo of it. I'd supect the raised pockets and straps are the culprits, not whether it is soft or hard. Perhaps these items are somewhat stiff. But I bet there could be similar issues with photo vests, and other clothing with raised pockets or other features such as one of my ski jackets, my safety harness, emergency floation devices (the kind you wear in a helicopter over water,) and perhaps even some sport coats and other "not so unusual clothing."

 

Alan--

Looks like one of two solutions to me:

 

Leica should pack an instruction sheet with the camera recommending either:

-- shooting it au naturel; or

-- getting an accessory stick-on leather patch with cutouts for the buttons

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Tina--

I'm glad you had enough interest to offer your input.

 

No need to read the forum posts; more than half of them are repeats.

 

Like Kamber, you speak from experience, and that is to be respected.

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At one time the switches on Canon lenses could be moved inadvertinetly when you slid the lens into or out of a camera bag. Or accidentally when shooting with it. So Canon resessed the switches and solved the problem.

 

 

 

This is still the case. I had to put tape over the switch on my relatively new 24-70/2.8 Canon lens.

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Ughh. Which would mean another two month trip to La La land for something they should have caught last time (or better yet when it was made/designed).

 

Just to make sure we are talking about the same thing: after the camera has fallen asleep (power switch is still on S or C) if I go and press the button to take a pic nothing happens until it wakes up and I press again. Isn't this the way it was designed or do I really have a problem?

 

Charles--yes, we're talking the same thing; and Jeff's description is accurate.

 

Your description exactly matches the way my camera used to work: I lost several 'one-off' photos by bringing the camera to my eye and pressing the release only to discover that it had been in 'sleep' mode and wasn't ready yet to take a picture. To release the shutter required a second press altogether.

 

The original M8's had major problems, as you're aware, and needed to go back to Solms

 

About the beginning of this year, the so-called M8-2 appeared, with improvements to several aspects. To my knowledge, it was only at that time that Leica could address the problem you speak of.

 

My camera, after adjustment early this year, now behaves as Jeff's does: If the camera is been in 'sleep' mode and I push the shutter release all the way through, the camera doesn't fire. If I push the release far enough to turn on the meter (red LED on back lights up, VF LEDs light up), and then press the release through, the picture gets taken with proper exposure.

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Isn't the whole point of letting the camera go into sleep mode to make it essentially shut down and not use the battery? Any digital camera I'm aware of needs to be "awakened" with a shutter touch before pressing the shutter again to take the picture. As Jeff mentioned, you can fire the 5D with one press of the shutter button, but it doesn't give sufficient time for the camera to autofocus. I routinely double press the shutter on my 5Ds. I don't see this as a malfunction. The option, of course, is to just disable the auto off so the camera doesn't ever go into sleep mode.

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I read the review but not all of the pages and pages of comments here. I am a professional photographer and have replaced my Canon 5D and 1DMIII with two M8's. I'm very happy. It's all about the lenses for me. I used Leica M film cameras and am glad that Leica finally came out with a digital camera that can use my Leica M lenses. Sure, it has problems. All digital cameras have problems. The heat and blowing dust in Iraq would be death to any digital camera. I had to remove the base plate to change film, too, but at least the M8 will take the equivalent of about 15 rolls of photos before I have remove the base plate! The time between shots is no longer than it would take to wind the film for the next shot. With the M8's I don't have as many problems with chromatic aberrations and fringing as I do with even the best Canon L lenses. The only Canon lens that even approaches the Leica M ones is the 85/1.2 and it is huge. The M8 has all of the pluses and minuses of a rangefinder. When I compare the size, weight, noise, and obtrusiveness of the Canons to my M8s, there is no choice for me. The M8 is a perfectly reasonable choice for a professional documentary photographer.

 

Tina Manley

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Thanks for posting Tina. Those who don't know who Tina's work might find it interesting to Google her name.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

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having got out of Iraq on Christmas 2003, and subsequently the Army the following year there are some unique conditions you should probably be aware of. Although I was way too old to be posted for combat, no where in that place was safe at the time, include fixed bases.

 

The Australians were operating training establishments for Iraq Police and Army personnel at fixed assets around Mosul, and in the desert west of there. Although not as dangerous as environs around Baghdad, that could change and did at any moment. Seemingly everyone was armed or had access to arms, IED's were an issue, the MSR (main supply route) up from Baghdad was one of the most dangerous roads in Iraq. Incidentally, MSR's radiate out from Baghdad to the border communities, and are not roads like you might be used to, but a hardened sand of varying width.

 

Ballistic vests are worn commonly on and off the base as necessary. Photographers like other 'visitors' in the zone are attached to a specific group who's duty it is to look after them. So we make them wear ballistic vests, its not a choice issue, if they think it is, theyre on the next bird home. Visitors after all are afforded a luxury aussie soldiers dont have. If one of us gets hit, he's on his own until the area is secured, no heroics about saving a guy who's down, its specifically forbidden.

 

Vests are uncomfortable but improving, they have a lot of protrusions and pockets that seemingly catch on anything, and they are somewhat rigid, but they are way better than the alternatives. I would have thought that a simple half leather case would afford enough protection from accidental button presses although i havent tried it.

 

Sand as an issue, you wont be surprised to hear that its everywhere and it gets into everything. You would have heard of sandstorms, its about the most miserable part of existence. It gets in your ears, eyes, hair, weapons, vehicles. A Landrover I used had sand in the bottom of the speedometer about 3/4" deep.

 

Myself and 2 troopers caught in a short storm (overnight) decided to take some cover afforded by the vehicle, but had to abandon that after 40 minutes or risk drowning in sand. The stuff can stop anything including a tank, actually tracked vehicles are particularly affected by sand.

 

So can sand stop a camera, absolutely. Most soldiers take a camera with them overseas together with ipods mp3 players or whatever, from what i hear, almost without exception they are junked when they get home.

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I think he only found out it was the "wrong" camera after he tried using it in comparison with his other cameras which worked better.

 

As for the flak jacket - he posted a photo of it. I'd supect the raised pockets and straps are the culprits, not whether it is soft or hard. Perhaps these items are somewhat stiff. But I bet there could be similar issues with photo vests, and other clothing with raised pockets or other features such as one of my ski jackets, my safety harness, emergency floation devices (the kind you wear in a helicopter over water,) and perhaps even some sport coats and other "not so unusual clothing."

 

By the time that Leica designed the M8 they had plenty of time to study various solutions that other manufacturers had emploed. So why is it that they didn't see that other cameras have resessed buttons? At one time the switches on Canon lenses could be moved inadvertinetly when you slid the lens into or out of a camera bag. Or accidentally when shooting with it. So Canon resessed the switches and solved the problem.

 

Since it would be so easy for Leica to fix this issue, let's see how long it takes them to do so.

 

Not so easy a solution- the buttons are set in the cast metal body of the camera. The black rear plate is the actual body casting.

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I think we all agree that Leica lenses are the best - the reason indeed why I'm hoping for an improved M9 - but I'm afraid I fail to see that Tina Manley's post addresses the concerns raised in Michael Kamber's review.

I'm very glad that she endorses the M8 (although I believe I've read a couple of problems posted on this forum - swiftly fixed by Leica - that she's had with the cameras?), but I don't see that one celebrity photographer's point-of-view in some mysterious way 'cancels' another celebrity photographer's point-of-view.

Or is this somehow like a 'trump' card that can be played every time the going gets rough?

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Guest stnami
And this would allow for lightning-quick changing of the SD card exactly how...?
...guess which one is quicker our imagination or a god damn screwdriver:D :D :D :D
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..but I don't see that one celebrity photographer's point-of-view in some mysterious way 'cancels' another celebrity photographer's point-of-view.

Or is this somehow like a 'trump' card that can be played every time the going gets rough?

 

Not at all, it's just an alternative point of view from someone who has also used the camera and is happy with it. Or are you saying that only negative opinions about the camera carry any weight?

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Well get a 4gig card then you wont have to. But you've probably got a problem with that too.

 

Oh for goodness sake get over it - this is not about me or whether I'm a "glass-is-half-full" person or whether I'm "just whinging" or whether "only negative views carry weight".

 

Michael Kamber thoroughly and comprehensively reviewed the camera, and made some (imho) very good points. I didn't think that, with all due respect, the points made in Tina Manley's post above, although interesting, were in any way germane to this particular discussion.

 

As for the point about the 4gig card - in Kamber's review (which I assume from your post that you haven't read), his problem is not with how often the card needs to be changed, so much as under certain specific circumstances (not shared by the majority of shooters), having to remove a bottomplate to change an SD card might be a problem.

 

We're discussing his review, as far as I can see. Fyi Jeff I would personally not have that particular problem, as I am very rarely asked at gunpoint to hand over the card in my camera.

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... I'm afraid I fail to see that Tina Manley's post addresses the concerns raised in Michael Kamber's review. ...

Are you now requiring that all posts here address the specific issues raised by Kamber? The lady simply says 'it works for me.' Seems to me a valid opinion.

 

 

...I believe I've read a couple of problems posted on this forum - swiftly fixed by Leica - that she's had with the cameras? ...

Aha! So even if people like the camera, it must have had problems initially? What does that have to do with Kamber's complaints?

 

In fact, Ms Manley's forum posts say her shutter went out in one camera after two years of heavy use--and that the damage may have been caused by the camera's fall onto a marble floor, though it didn't manifest itself immediately. You're flailing about, plasticman, wanting to condemn the M8 in every way you can. Next, you'll be saying that it isn't available in enough colors, fer cryin' out loud!

 

 

 

Get off it! How many times has it been said that Kamber raises serious issues that made the camera unusable for him? How many times must it be said that Leica has corrected some but by no means all of his concerns? How many times must it be said that no camera is the 'right' camera for everyone in all purposes?

 

And yet you continue to argue that if one person found the camera unsuited for his use, it's clearly a defective design from the get-go.

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