delander † Posted June 16, 2008 Share #281 Posted June 16, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) OK I am glad it made them money, but publicity wise it just perpetuated their image as makers of camera jewels for rich people and opens them up to accusations of not being a serious camera company, I presume they do want to be a serious camera company? Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 16, 2008 Posted June 16, 2008 Hi delander †, Take a look here M8 Iraq field test - ouch.... I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted June 16, 2008 Share #282 Posted June 16, 2008 Yup - but they need money. Maybe not pretty this way, but any little bit helps. There was no cigar box available at the factory shop. I doubt there was much publicity outside this forum. After all, for cars and what have you there is always a "special limited edition" to clear stock before a model change. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom0511 Posted June 16, 2008 Share #283 Posted June 16, 2008 OK, I have to comment another time: people saying the M8 is a marketing "gag" are wrong. The M8 is capable of producing images of great image quality, its a camera which can be used in a very unobstrusive way, its small and ight, and expensive. Its not AF, it does not have matrix metering, it is not weather proove, and its not great above 640 ISO. So if someone needs any of these factors, its clear that he should choose another camera (concept) and not a manual rangefinder in a classical body. On the other side if one shoots at lower ISO, if one has a little time for the image, it can produce excellent images. Personally I use the M8 and a D3, and each has advantages and disadvantages. If I had to use only one camera for all I would not choose the M8, but I dont. But expecting the M8, which is a 50 years old concept in "new clothes" to work the same way as modern SLR systems do not seem usefull to me. ANd if one compares the M8 to old film cameras one should not only mention a little worse reliability, but also the ability of the M8 to take a sequence of shots faster compared to a film M8, the ability to instantly check the result and eventually repeat a shot, the ability to high quality 640 ISO shots (I dont believe that film could deliever more detail at ISO 640), the ability of not having to change film thta often (and even changing the sd card is faster than changnig a film) anyways. just needed to say what I think. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted June 16, 2008 Share #284 Posted June 16, 2008 Just a minor correction: He didn't win a Pulitzer. He was nominated three times. Politics! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted June 16, 2008 Share #285 Posted June 16, 2008 ... it is not weather proove, ... Tom-- Make that "It's not _advertised_ as weather-proof." In fact, I haven't seen any reports of the camera going down for lack of weather sealing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted June 16, 2008 Share #286 Posted June 16, 2008 ..I haven't seen any reports of the camera going down for lack of weather sealing. Surprising indeed given the thousands photogs shooting their M8 under the rain Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJP Posted June 16, 2008 Share #287 Posted June 16, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) Politics! There are lies, damn lies and politics His pics are OK no doubt about that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanhulsenbeek Posted June 16, 2008 Share #288 Posted June 16, 2008 There are lies, damn lies and politics Statistics, according to Mark Twain. But I go for the politics here Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticman Posted June 16, 2008 Share #289 Posted June 16, 2008 Its not AF, it does not have matrix metering, it is not weather proove, and its not great above 640 ISO...So if someone needs any of these factors, its clear that he should choose another camera (concept) and not a manual rangefinder in a classical body. But expecting the M8, which is a 50 years old concept in "new clothes" to work the same way as modern SLR systems do not seem usefull to me. When the reliability, responsiveness and speed of the M8 is called into question I often see this red herring waved around (if that's what one does with herrings?). I can't remember seeing Michael Kamber say that he wants autofocus or that he wants the M8 to work "the same way" as a DSLR - or any of the other bells and whistles that people hold up as gimmicks to easily knock down, even though no-one wants them on an M-camera (smile-recognition anyone?) What Kamber wants (as far as I can see) is a digital M that is as reliable and responsive as other digital cameras; a sensor that doesn't reduce high ISO images to a mush of unusable soft banded noise; and a camera worthy of it's heritage. Incidentally, are you guys seriously suggesting that the M8 is really weather-sealed? Oh and by the way - the amazing and moving images (sometimes of a horror that we can barely comprehend - such as the freshly cut-off head of a Monrovian rebel) surely deserve better than the patronizing comments we're hearing here. Let's have some respect for people who dare to present us, in our cosseted Western privileged lives, with a reality that we'd rather avert our eyes from, and which we are not in any way brave enough to witness for ourselves. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJP Posted June 16, 2008 Share #290 Posted June 16, 2008 Let's have some respect for people who dare to present us, in our cosseted Western privileged lives, with a reality that we'd rather avert our eyes from, and which we are not in any way brave enough to witness for ourselves. I honestly do not get this point. It is like claiming that a review by Goya on paintbrushes has to be worthwhile because he has shown us so much in his paintings. Mr. Kamber makes good photographs (or digital images if you prefer) not neccesarily good camera reviews. Some points I think we all agree with others not - thats all. End of story. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticman Posted June 16, 2008 Share #291 Posted June 16, 2008 I honestly do not get this point. It is like claiming that a review by Goya on paintbrushes has to be worthwhile because he has shown us so much in his paintings. Mr. Kamber makes good photographs (or digital images if you prefer) not neccesarily good camera reviews. Some points I think we all agree with others not - thats all. End of story. I'm not talking about his review. I'm talking about the way some people have been joking about his photography. Incidentally, he uses digital and film for his work, as I understand it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted June 16, 2008 Share #292 Posted June 16, 2008 ............ a dealer in images of the dead and tortured ..........and they get prizes for being the best Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticman Posted June 16, 2008 Share #293 Posted June 16, 2008 ............ a dealer in images of the dead and tortured ..........and they get prizes for the best Well imants - I think you and I disagree about the nature of war photography - but at least you take the issue seriously, unlike some on the forum who seemed to me to be enjoying belittling the achievements of the photographer, simply because he criticized their favorite camera. I know from what you've said before that you think there's an element of self-glorification in combat photography, but while I agree that is some part of why these men (and women) are there, I also think that there are so many forces at work endeavoring to stop us from witnessing what is happening (usually to secure some raw material to keep our Western lives luxurious and mobile), that I really respect the efforts and sacrifices these people make to record the unpleasant truth (or one version of it at least). Look at the photographs and read the texts again (his work I mean, not the review obviously), and you can see Kamber has genuinely put his own life totally on the line to get some of his shots. Look at the people wielding knives or blown apart simply a few meters away from him, and tell me that it would be a greater crime if no-one was there to remind us this is happening - and often with our own governments' consent or even help. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted June 16, 2008 Share #294 Posted June 16, 2008 Putting one's life on line is no justification of taking aesthetically orientated images of death and destruction and spare me the photography is going to change the world crap........... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicajh Posted June 16, 2008 Share #295 Posted June 16, 2008 Putting one's life on line is no justification of taking aesthetically orientated images of death and destruction and spare me the photography is going to change the world crap........... Wrong- photogs photos help end our Viet Nam thing. USAF 1970 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted June 16, 2008 Share #296 Posted June 16, 2008 ...Mr. Kamber makes good photographs (or digital images if you prefer) not neccesarily good camera reviews. Some points I think we all agree with others not - thats all... I think the most telling conclusion I took from Kamber's report is that despite being an experienced Leica M shooter, he found that he consistently produced better images with a Canon. And that's putting aside all of the specific complaints he had about the M8. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted June 16, 2008 Share #297 Posted June 16, 2008 Bullshit the people/ government did that .................. photo guys always place too many tabs on their role in society, the seed of discent was sown well before that Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vieri Posted June 16, 2008 Share #298 Posted June 16, 2008 Putting one's life on line is no justification of taking aesthetically orientated images of death and destruction and spare me the photography is going to change the world crap........... Maybe you could, as well, spare us your cynical BS - I guess you can understand how people have the right to their belief, to be idealist to a degree, and to believe that their work has a meaning; the implicit fact that you don't believe yours has any, doesn't make it universally so. Respect to others, I am sure, would be appreciated by many here Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted June 16, 2008 Share #299 Posted June 16, 2008 Nothing cynical about it but if your interest is in banged up people so be it, play with your war monger thoughts Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vieri Posted June 16, 2008 Share #300 Posted June 16, 2008 Nothing cynical about it but if your interest is in banged up people so be it, play with your war monger thoughts Please do point out what part of my message brings up any of these "war monger thoughts" you mention, or shows my interest in "banged up people"; if you read them again slowly, you will see that my intent is that to defend people's intellectual freedom. More, unfortunately for you my friend, when attacking me with your remarks you choose someone who spent his life as a pacifist, including choosing to opt for civic services instead of compulsory draft in the army; your comments show nothing more than your anger and ignorance of your fellow man, and the intent of being offensive & trying to provoke anger and aggressivity on others: it will not work with me, so please feel free to have the last word on this if you want, and as you probably will - I am done talking to you about this topic. Now, back to photography Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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