Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
dalippe

How to post-process 2500 ISO B&W

Recommended Posts

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Hi,

 

I recently took some shots at a very dark victory celebration for a friend who was elected to the local school board (my wife was his campaign manager!). I shot the Nocti at 1.0, 1/30s and still needed ISO 3200. I think that to make these shots look at all reasonable, they'll have to be B&W because of all the chroma noise. But a (default) conversion to B&W in Lightroom produces a picture whose noise looks digital-- the "grain" looks to be on a grid.

 

How do others handle post-processing such shots? I haven't tried Noise Ninja or other such products, but I believe in cases like this noise reduction is hopeless and the better route is to add noise to get a film-like look. Do you agree? And if so, how would you actually go about adding the noise?

 

Thanks for any advice. An example shot is attached.

 

David

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looking at my example, I see that the noise is not as prominent on the web jpg as the full size, raw original. But hopefully others have enough experience with taking such shots themselves that they can guess what the original looks like and give me some sense of how they've dealt with it.

 

Thanks again.

 

David

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

David:

 

Run the file through Noise Ninja or a similar noise reduction program.

 

Here is your picture treated with Noise Ninja.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can also try higher numbers in the Luminance and Chroma noise setting in Lightroom, but they will tend to soften the detail a bit more than Noise Ninja.

 

Robert

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Make sure all sharpening is set to zero and turn OFF luminance noise reduction. You will need to take the middle tones down a bit using levels. As a rule of thumb I try not to create an image that appears lighter than my eyes see the scene. Embrace the darkness!

 

Is this converted in C1?

 

Best wishes

Dan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You can also try higher numbers in the Luminance and Chroma noise setting in Lightroom, but they will tend to soften the detail a bit more than Noise Ninja.

 

Robert

Robert,

 

Thanks for the demonstration of Noise Ninja. I expected it to lose more detail. I tried playijng with NR in Lightroom, but it softened the (already somewhat soft) pictures quite a bit and still left unpleasant looking noise.

 

I've been reading about Noise Ninja for years. Guess it is time to buy it. Up until now I've been able to get buy with LR and ACR noise reduction, but this is the first time I've tried the M8 for something serious at this ISO.

 

Thanks again,

 

David

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Make sure all sharpening is set to zero and turn OFF luminance noise reduction. You will need to take the middle tones down a bit using levels. As a rule of thumb I try not to create an image that appears lighter than my eyes see the scene. Embrace the darkness!

 

Is this converted in C1?

 

Best wishes

Dan

 

Hi Dan,

Converted in LR with all sharpening and NR turned off (or at least as off as LR will allow it to be).

 

The light was rather uneven (i.e, much darker in some parts of the room than others) and the aperture priority couldn't be trusted because many scenes contained bright lights in them that would have fooled the meter. So I just set everything manually to 3200, f/1, 1/30 sec and shot the night away. My plan was indeed to darken shots (like this one) that were brighter than the actual scene. This is just a default conversion to show the noise. But I figured, perhaps incorrectly, that the final image would be better if I got the original as bright as possible and then darkened rather than taking "underexposed" shots to begin with (expose to the right...). But perhaps this isn't true if getting them brighter means shooting ISO 3200? Any experience comparing these methods?

 

Thanks,

 

David

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

David:

 

If you use Nosie Ninja, try converting the DNG with the lightroom noise reduction set to 0 and 0. You should also try the Lightroom sharpening set to .4 pixels.

 

Robert

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is your photo processed in ACR (CS3), then treated with Neat Image.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest stnami

try using a flash the image looks awful, the noise ninja is bnw cling wrap is even worse

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

David

 

I definitely agree with your initial suggestion to skip noise reduction (the

NN'ed images here confirm that this is not the way to go - horrible) and

instead add grain to make them look film-like. It's what I have done with

some success in the past.

 

There's a good tutorial here:

Real film grain files! (Photography Tutorials) · street photography New York in black and white : urban views · New York photographs by Markus Hartel

 

and the grain image files can be downloaded for free here:

http://gridstopper.mm.st/Grain.zip

 

Hope this works for you - and if it does post some results.

 

Guido

 

PS: f1 @ ISO 3200? Was there any light at all?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
try using a flash the image looks awful, the noise ninja is bnw cling wrap is even worse

I usually skip over your posts because they have nothing to add to the topic and are usually totally off the wall, like the post I've quoted.

You may be a OK photographer, and that is in question, but you are one rotten human being.

Get a life.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Here is your photo processed in ACR (CS3), then treated with Neat Image.

 

Hi' Brent,

 

I'm impressed! Would you be willing to give a little more detail on how you achieved it?

 

I'm still struggling with the the shift from film to digital. Frankly, I'm increasingly frustrated by my seeming failure to get a grip on post-processing and I need all the advice I can get!

 

Maybe its something to do with old dogs and new tricks ....

 

Steve'

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest stnami

Oi! Shootie the grumpy one......... the images look awfull and a flash would have done the job, saves on cling wrap, but I still luv ya babie:) with you smug life style here catcha brick

 

..... anway one is better shooting 800 minus two stops

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
try using a flash the image looks awful, the noise ninja is bnw cling wrap is even worse

 

Flash wasn't really an option. I was trying to be as inconspicuous as possible rather than standing out as the photo dork setting off disturbing bright flashes while people are just trying to enjoy themselves. Besides, the shots are just for fun and it is more challenging and fun to see what I can do with existing light in extreme situations.

 

David

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Here is your photo processed in ACR (CS3), then treated with Neat Image.

 

Hi Brent,

 

Thanks for the demo. I think in this case I prefer the NN result. Her face looks like plastic in the Neat Image shot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

...the flash could do the job: I second this.

I don't think we have a good margin here, the posted picture isn't properly exposed, and this gives a harsh noise anyway.

 

i.e.

next time you'd better use a Flash to get better results, this time, I think this picture could have an important meaning for you, you have to deal with a bad noise anyway and get it as it get

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
David

 

I definitely agree with your initial suggestion to skip noise reduction (the

NN'ed images here confirm that this is not the way to go - horrible) and

instead add grain to make them look film-like. It's what I have done with

some success in the past.

 

There's a good tutorial here:

Real film grain files! (Photography Tutorials) · street photography New York in black and white : urban views · New York photographs by Markus Hartel

 

and the grain image files can be downloaded for free here:

http://gridstopper.mm.st/Grain.zip

 

Hope this works for you - and if it does post some results.

 

Guido

 

PS: f1 @ ISO 3200? Was there any light at all?

 

Thanks for the link. I'll give it a try. And no, there really wasn't any light as you can see (these are also at 1/30s!). I didn't realize exactly how dark it was going to be until we actually arrived.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
...the flash could do the job: I second this.

I don't think we have a good margin here, the posted picture isn't properly exposed, and this gives a harsh noise anyway.

 

i.e.

next time you'd better use a Flash to get better results, this time, I think this picture could have an important meaning for you, you have to deal with a bad noise anyway and get it as it get

Hi Maurizio,

 

As I said above, I really didn't want to use flash. And once I arrived there was no choice anyway-- I didn't have a flash with me. But of course you're right that flash would have avoided this problem.

 

David

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hi Maurizio,

 

As I said above, I really didn't want to use flash. And once I arrived there was no choice anyway-- I didn't have a flash with me. But of course you're right that flash would have avoided this problem.

 

David

 

Yep, I understand.

I know what the use of a Flash means when you're surrounded by people, and I'm not particularly a flash-lover (that's why I choosed Leicas).

Anyway, to get a nice result you could apply some noise ninja to the picture, and then use a layer with a real grain...

 

Now i will try to post it, give me a minute, please.

 

Here we are:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...