Scott Root Posted May 8, 2008 Author Share #41 Posted May 8, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) Erwin Puts may be setting the stage for a lower priced DRF, but IMHO it is just a baby step toward what the M-series camera will most certainly evolve into, albeit some years from now: M of the future: 1. basic same size of current M-series camera of same quality of craftsmanship and material 2. manual winder with option in the menu to use motor winder 3, mechanical rangefinder as current 4. frame lines or indicators coupled electronically to 6-bit coding with sensor to read the flange of the lens rather than the 6-bit coding for when the 6-bit coding is turned off, or non-existing. Benefit would be a single set of frame lines with a 6-bit coded lens without loosing the current feature of multiple frame lines for lenses without 6-bit coding, or for when 6-bit detection is turned off. 5. no base plate and easy access to battery and card 6. weatherproofing seals throghout 7. right thumb exposure compensation toggling lever 8. full frame. 9. introduction of auto focus M-range of lenses with body accepting both, missing the tabs on the auto focus lenses. Sacred to the M will then become the mechanical rangefinder and high quality lenses, not to mention build quality and compatability with older M accessories and lenses. I wish they could build it now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted May 8, 2008 Posted May 8, 2008 Hi Scott Root, Take a look here Erwin Puts plants a seed. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
tom0511 Posted May 8, 2008 Share #42 Posted May 8, 2008 The feature set integrated into the M8 is perfect, taking anything away will seriously cripple the usability of the camera ... perhaps some of you will lust over a franken style add on shoe mounted light meter - definitely not me. I agree. Those who dont like a display could just put black tape on it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronazle Posted May 8, 2008 Share #43 Posted May 8, 2008 Bugs aside, I too like the M8 as it is. My backups are a pair of M-3s, which I truly love; however, carrying around an exposure meter is not particularly loved. The JPEGs take little room and provide a backup for the fairly rare, but real, possibility of a given raw being defective, so I would leave the JPEGs in the system. One can hardly have too much backup. All things considered, the design of the M8 is great; however, to paraphrase Voltaire: "as to the execution, that is another matter". regards, Ron Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jimmy pro Posted May 8, 2008 Share #44 Posted May 8, 2008 There are many reasons why digital has quickly swamped film, and one biggy is the ability to review a shot immediately. So chucking the LCD might satisfy a few excentrics but it would piss off most serious shooters. Now the motordriven winder, that I could see chucking. In the first place the M8's burst rate is so limited that someone with a fast thumb could prolly beat the motor, and plus there could of always been a addon motor. A manual winder would make the M8 lots quieter than the socalled new quieter shutter that's still motordriven. And burying the ISO control in a menu has to come under the heading of what-were-they-thinking coz it's completely 180 degrees from the concept of intuitive simplicity. There's really nothing radically wrong about the M8 other than those. Better if Leica concentrated there R&D money on making it more reliable. All the best features in the world don't mean squat if it poops out when you need it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
diogenis Posted May 8, 2008 Share #45 Posted May 8, 2008 Actually we were just brainstorming the possibility of a cheaper alternative to the M8. That was all. My only complain for the M8, is basically an ISO dial. That said however, it don't mean that I'm happy with it's screen, or other screens of dSLRs: you can't see it under bright daylight, and is not too dense. I would prefer a grey scale reflective and energy efficient LCD screen, if such a thing exists Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrid Posted May 9, 2008 Share #46 Posted May 9, 2008 No chimping??? One suggestion I very much agree with is getting rid of the motorized shutter cocking mechanism and replacing it with a thumb lever. I've felt this way since I first picked up the M8. Yeah, we need to keep the LCD screen, if for any reason to check the histogram. Until digital hits 12-14 stops of DR, it's not going to be anywhere as forgiving as film, even in RAW mode. I also think they could lose the motor cocking and go back to a thumb lever, with the option of a motorwinder. It certainly would give us a quieter camera and possibly free up some space inside the body. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dugby Posted May 9, 2008 Share #47 Posted May 9, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) That would be the Digilux 2 then? I think a Digilux-1 with M lens mount is closer to the requirement...... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrid Posted May 9, 2008 Share #48 Posted May 9, 2008 I would prefer a grey scale reflective and energy efficient LCD screen, if such a thing exists Maybe a OLED screen is the solution. Very low power consumption and high contrast ratio. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl E Posted May 28, 2008 Share #49 Posted May 28, 2008 I think a number of good ideas have come up in the discussion of where we would like to see Leica take their "non-SLR" digital cameras. There seems to be general agreement that we need a "digital CL" as well as continued development of the digital M concept. In my thinking, the digital M concept relies on backward compatibility with all M-mount lenses. Therefore autofocus and M-mount seem to be incompatible concepts to me. However, one solution for the future digital M might be to remove the mechanical/optical rangefinder (I know this sounds terrible) and replace it with a single focus detector much like the ones currently used in DSLRs. Focussing would still be manual, but correct focus would be indicated with an LED or LCD readout in the viewfinder, and no longer by superimposing two optical images. The benefits would be: * Full backwards compatibility with all M-mount lenses * Simplified design may lead to a brighter viewfinder (maybe even one where different viewfinder magnifications could be selected by turning a wheel on the camera body to put additional optical components in the lightpath of the viewfinder) * Lower cost of production Best regards, Carl E Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
offshore Posted May 28, 2008 Share #50 Posted May 28, 2008 Erwin Puts article of May 4, The case for craftsmanship and simplicity was surely not written in a vacuum, leading me to believe the following statement made in that article is setting the stage for for a less expensive DRF that will appeal to purists. "Now we have to hope that the Leica company will design a new digital CRF that is as simple to use as the M3 and brings the essence of photography back in the digital process, evolving from the current synthetic photography to naturalistic photography." Erwins' an interesting guy but the seed for a compact M has been in the development stage with Leica for some time before he thought of it. We may see it this fall at or before Photokina. Think CL/CLE and Summarit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Ortego Posted May 28, 2008 Share #51 Posted May 28, 2008 As a relatively new RF photographer, threads like this reinforce my original goal for a less complicated camera. Sure, I’ve been tempted at times to forego the high costs of Leica lenses and such, although I do enjoy the footprint (minimalist) and portability of the M concept. Based on Dr. Kaufmann’s comments, it’s apparent that some sort of reduced M is in the making while ensuring continued use of the vast M-lenses. Likewise, their are countless threads whereby potential (and current) owners debate the cost/feature rule of logic as Erwin Putts states. ”And after you selected the product, you are still insecure and continue to seek assurance that you made a wise choice.” Just yesterday, I pondered the same thing’ as I gazed at my M8 and three super-prime lenses. It’s difficult to rationalize at times, so I just have to shake it off and move forward while remembering, it's all about having fun. ~ Regards, Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overgaard Posted May 28, 2008 Share #52 Posted May 28, 2008 A new Digilux 2 with fast AF zoom, M mount would do. Sell the camera for 2,000€ without lens, making it possible for people who already own M lenses to go digital. Sell the AF lens for 750€ or a package with any 2.5 M-lens and the camera for 2,400€. Then the future of AF M-lenses is open and we would get somewhere. Ad a few megapixels and we're set to go. (As for suncells: Couldn't someone invent a cover for the M8 (and any camera) that charges the camera, by the way? Or a bag that charges batteries in the bag?). Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
blakley Posted May 28, 2008 Share #53 Posted May 28, 2008 A new Digilux 2 with fast AF zoom, M mount would do. Sell the camera for 2,000€ without lens, making it possible for people who already own M lenses to go digital. Sell the AF lens for 750€ or a package with any 2.5 M-lens and the camera for 2,400€. Then the future of AF M-lenses is open and we would get somewhere. The effect here would be to make M-mount lenses which won't work on existing M cameras - and to make them so cheaply they'll produce inferior quality on the cameras they do work on. This path seems to me to be a sure road to ruin for the M line. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndReini Posted May 28, 2008 Share #54 Posted May 28, 2008 If Leica comes out with a digital CL with a fixed 50mm or 35mm 2.4 and the same sensor as the M8 and even smaller size, I'll buy it as a second camera. Sign me up! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Ortego Posted May 28, 2008 Share #55 Posted May 28, 2008 An average Armani shirt runs about $125.00 in Italy vs. a custom handmade American shirt at $275.00. There is always a way to bend the rules of logic to ease our minds. Clearly, the Leica fold is not for the faint at heart and I’m not wealthy or a pro. Granted, if I could find a way to make money with it, that would be great. Truth is, I’m simply not that good. Regards, Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
photolandscape Posted May 28, 2008 Share #56 Posted May 28, 2008 Before investing in a less sophisticated form of the M8, I'd much rather see Leica work to correct the problems that have plagued the M8 from the beginning: erratic electronics, green blobs, AWB (one of the few things that they have improved upon in the latest FW release), noisy shutter, IR over-sensitivity, lack of SDHC compatibility, and inaccurate rangefinder framelines--to name the major ones that come to mind. There is a great deal to like in the current M8--but too many flaws that aren't being addressed. When you've invested $10,000 in an M8 and 3 or 4 lenses, you should expect continued improvements and fewer flaws in the first place. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 28, 2008 Share #57 Posted May 28, 2008 (As for suncells: Couldn't someone invent a cover for the M8 (and any camera) that charges the camera, by the way? Or a bag that charges batteries in the bag?). Voltaic Systems | Voltaic Backpack, Solar Backpack, Solar Bag Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
offshore Posted May 29, 2008 Share #58 Posted May 29, 2008 An average Armani shirt runs about $125.00 in Italy vs. a custom handmade American shirt at $275.00. There is always a way to bend the rules of logic to ease our minds. Clearly, the Leica fold is not for the faint at heart and I’m not wealthy or a pro. Granted, if I could find a way to make money with it, that would be great. Truth is, I’m simply not that good.Regards, Daniel think credit card, easy payment plan, no interest for 6 months-it's the American way to ownership. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted May 29, 2008 Share #59 Posted May 29, 2008 Mr Kaufmann, give me a digital CL or a Leica version of the R-D1 please. I'm sad to have not purchased a Leica body since the Digilux 1. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
spylaw4 Posted May 29, 2008 Share #60 Posted May 29, 2008 Following this thread merely indicates to me the truth of one part of the old adage : "You'll never please all of the people all of the time"! And some of the suggestions made here won't get me rushing to buy! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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