Erwin Puts plants a seed

[Scott Root]

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Erwin Puts article of May 4, The case for craftsmanship and simplicity was surely not written in a vacuum, leading me to believe the following statement made in that article is setting the stage for for a less expensive DRF that will appeal to purists.

 

"Now we have to hope that the Leica company will design a new digital CRF that is as simple to use as the M3 and brings the essence of photography back in the digital process, evolving from the current synthetic photography to naturalistic photography."

[Dan States]

How much more simplicity can you get beyond the M8? Point and shoot?

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[Bob Ross]

Erwin Puts article of May 4, The case for craftsmanship and simplicity was surely not written in a vacuum, leading me to believe the following statement made in that article is setting the stage for for a less expensive DRF that will appeal to purists.

 

"Now we have to hope that the Leica company will design a new digital CRF that is as simple to use as the M3 and brings the essence of photography back in the digital process, evolving from the current synthetic photography to naturalistic photography."

I read Erwin's article and when he brought up the M3, I drifted off a bit. I was using a Contax II in the M3 days and later went to the M4-2, M5, M6 and now the M8. So what does he imply here? Is it a basic body, top shutter speed of 1/1000, no meter or aperture priority, 100% finder with a family of auxillary finders, no need for coded lenses? I suppose that I am asking, what is it about the M8 that gets in the way of expressing the essence, that could be eliminated at a cost savings. My only guess is a simplified finder and a few controls brought out of the menus. Any other ideas?

Bob

[marknorton]

Link here:

 

The case for simplicity and craftsmanship (May 4, 2008) | Photography and image capture: the Leica technique and philosophy by Erwin Puts | Erwin Puts

 

One way to simplify the camera would be to make it DNG only. JPEG quality in the M8 continues to disappoint and the best way to get round that is not to do any. Some menu items which are greyed out when in DNG-only could then be removed.

 

Next to go would be continuous mode and motorised wind, just a manual wind and release, like the Epson R-D1. No self-timer, if you want one, use one which screws into the old fashioned cable release socket. No on-off switch; the camera is permanently on in sleep mode, woken up using the wind-on lever or shutter release.

 

More radical still would be to make the camera a chimping-free zone by doing away with the entire back of the camera - no screen, buttons, thumb-wheel, just a dial to set ISO; no AE mode, so no EV compensation; no White Balance because you always deal with it in RAW, don't you? If you don't have a screen, you don't have to have a menu item for setting its brightness and whether you have auto-review... No user profiles because you've got nothing to put in them...

 

You'd need some way of formatting cards, setting the time and date and... that's about it. Would a bare-bones camera like this appeal? If it cost 2/3 of an M8?

[dpattinson]

Link here:

 

The case for simplicity and craftsmanship (May 4, 2008) | Photography and image capture: the Leica technique and philosophy by Erwin Puts | Erwin Puts

 

One way to simplify the camera would be to make it DNG only. JPEG quality in the M8 continues to disappoint and the best way to get round that is not to do any. Some menu items which are greyed out when in DNG-only could then be removed.

 

Next to go would be continuous mode and motorised wind, just a manual wind and release, like the Epson R-D1. No self-timer, if you want one, use one which screws into the old fashioned cable release socket. No on-off switch; the camera is permanently on in sleep mode, woken up using the wind-on lever or shutter release.

 

More radical still would be to make the camera a chimping-free zone by doing away with the entire back of the camera - no screen, buttons, thumb-wheel, just a dial to set ISO; no AE mode, so no EV compensation; no White Balance because you always deal with it in RAW, don't you? If you don't have a screen, you don't have to have a menu item for setting its brightness and whether you have auto-review... No user profiles because you've got nothing to put in them...

 

You'd need some way of formatting cards, setting the time and date and... that's about it. Would a bare-bones camera like this appeal? If it cost 2/3 of an M8?

 

A lot of that sounds like an upgrade to me

 

You could replace the screen with a little lcd display to retain the ability to set menu items. Ooer... you could even allow manual lens setting (no coding required - no sensor in lens mount). I guess you could display a histogram in a lcd display too - which would give you a lot of the chimp value.

 

Oh - and since there would be no chimp... 'good for normal usage' framelines would be awesome.

[michael_b_elmer]

Mark seems to be thinking of continuing the history by Leica indtroducing somthing like a digital MP - where the M8 is like a digital M7. It would make good sense.

[sdai]

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The feature set integrated into the M8 is perfect, taking anything away will seriously cripple the usability of the camera ... perhaps some of you will lust over a franken style add on shoe mounted light meter - definitely not me.

[Fotomiguel]

, just a dial to set ISO

Just this change would be perfect for me. And another dial for the exposure compensation. Working meinly without using the menu. That's important to me. I find it quicker. But, of course, I will keep all the rest as it is, improving what can be improved.

Thank you

[diogenis]

Nice article from Erwin indeed...

 

 

So, what would it be needed for a cheaper and easier dMP:

1. Iso dial with EV ring

2. Who needs a screen? Give us ipod compatibility. Ipods do have screens and large capacities, and we all have at least 2 of them

3. Like Mark points out kill the on-off switch, make it on all time, but also use the back of it as a solar panel for recharging, or don't for savings...

4. Get rid of expensive brass/magnesium alloys, use something else and seal it!

5. And last the rangefinding procedure by itself:

a. Get rid of the optomechanical rangefinder, keep the bright viewfinder, or make it even bigger .

b. Keep the lens coupling for old/new M lenses, upgrade the lever for electronic use

c. Introduce an electronic way of distance measuring, which will follow the > o < led principle from within the viewfinder like how it is used now for manual shutter: An accurate very low and safe power beam of laser or I don't know what else, measures distance with mm accuracy and drives photographer's hand to rotate lens ring, by the arrows, much like how he does now that is, only electronically...

Presto.. the ALL NEW dM just in time for photokina

[diogenis]

Btw, I like the M8 how it is right now, and as mr. Putts indicates, the absolute need for manual control at least for focusing gives a sense of personalization and skill for every photo you take. More if you use the manual setting for shutter speed as well.

I don't want to trade the optomechanical rangefinder of that camera for anything.

And the only thing the M8 misses at this point is the ISO/EV external wheels.

 

Erwin Putts is dead on the spot when he claims that manufacturers on their race for market grasping have gone way off by introducing useless automatic features for everything.

And this is not just happening for photography, but for every other gadget people are using.

Manufacturers should redefine core values of their products and make them simpler to use but more accurate, much like Leica paves the way that is...

[Samir Jahjah]

Link here:

 

The case for simplicity and craftsmanship (May 4, 2008) | Photography and image capture: the Leica technique and philosophy by Erwin Puts | Erwin Puts

 

One way to simplify the camera would be to make it DNG only. JPEG quality in the M8 continues to disappoint and the best way to get round that is not to do any. Some menu items which are greyed out when in DNG-only could then be removed.

 

Next to go would be continuous mode and motorised wind, just a manual wind and release, like the Epson R-D1. No self-timer, if you want one, use one which screws into the old fashioned cable release socket. No on-off switch; the camera is permanently on in sleep mode, woken up using the wind-on lever or shutter release.

 

More radical still would be to make the camera a chimping-free zone by doing away with the entire back of the camera - no screen, buttons, thumb-wheel, just a dial to set ISO; no AE mode, so no EV compensation; no White Balance because you always deal with it in RAW, don't you? If you don't have a screen, you don't have to have a menu item for setting its brightness and whether you have auto-review... No user profiles because you've got nothing to put in them...

 

You'd need some way of formatting cards, setting the time and date and... that's about it. Would a bare-bones camera like this appeal? If it cost 2/3 of an M8?

 

It would definetely appeal to me! Also the screen and the in-camera chips/computer require power and generate image noise. I am sure a simple "RAW recorder" would offer even cleaner image. To add to your list, the manual wind and release could be designed such as to generate enough power for the next shot...so that you don t need a battery anymore. Add weather-sealed. Then make the sensor removable! If they can achieve this, I am sure they could sell it at a even higher price!

[marknorton]

Certainly the case that if you remove the motor wind and the colour display, you remove major consumers of power. Whether you could ever do away with the battery completely is another question.

[elansprint72]

"Now we have to hope that the Leica company will design a new digital CRF that is as simple to use as the M3 and brings the essence of photography back in the digital process, evolving from the current synthetic photography to naturalistic photography."

 

That would be the Digilux 2 then?

[jaapv]

Ain't it fun speculating without being restrained by information....?

I doubt that the market the camera would be aimed at would accept lack of a LCD or motordrive.

I would expect something quite different:

Smaller form factor, non-metal body, 1.5 sensor with IR filtering, EVF view/rangefinder, electronic shutter,own lensrange, but still able to take M lenses. Pricepoint about 2500 Euro.

[dpattinson]

Ain't it fun speculating without being restrained by information....?

I doubt that the market the camera would be aimed at would accept lack of a LCD or motordrive.

I would expect something quite different:

Smaller form factor, non-metal body, 1.5 sensor with IR filtering, EVF view/rangefinder, electronic shutter,own lensrange, but still able to take M lenses. Pricepoint about 2500 Euro.

 

jaapv, I agree that what you've described is more like what I assumed a cut-down M8 would be, and probably much more likely to be what Leica produce. I wonder if they'd be competitive with a lower spec range of lenses though - might be better to leave the really cheap end of the lens market to CV and just flog a lot of bodies.

 

IMHO that's not what Erwin was talking about though, I think he was aiming for the digital MP equivalent.

[Eoin]

I like my M8 just the way it is, I doubt I'd give up the LCD for checking the histogram or focus. But If I want "the essence" of photography I shift off A and set the shutter speed and aperture manually. I can't remember the last time I wound on the frame advance of a camera, it must be 20 odd years ago. That from what I remember is something I don't miss.

I like the C mode, it comes in handy some times when chasing a sequence.

 

All in all I think the M8 does what it does very well while retaining the M form. But most importantly as an existing M8 user my next M purchase would be for an improved camera with perhaps better image quality and high ISO performance, full frame is not a deciding factor for me, perhaps even a turn off with edge quality and changes in effective focal lengths I have at the moment. No, at some time in the future I'll look to add a 2nd body and it won't be a cutdown version of what I have already.

[jaapv]

IMHO that's not what Erwin was talking about though, I think he was aiming for the digital MP equivalent.

 

Indeed it is not. But contrary to the assumption in the original post, I do think Erwin is talking in a vacuum, in the sense that he is expressing his photographic philosophy as applied to the Leica M series.

There is a fundamental flaw in his argument though. Contrary to what we perceive through the telescope of history, the M3 was not a simple and basic tool when it was introduced. It had a banjonet mount, a parallax corrected viewfinder, automatic framelines, (later) a selftimer and a host of accessories. Not many cameras back then could boast such complication. That the user interface was simple and intuitive was and is the strength of the design, up to and including the M8. But to suppose that a simple to operate and minimalistic tool must of necessity be of a tecnologically uncomplicated design is a fallacy.

So the call for a "digital M3" as an "undigitalized" digital camera is more of a nostalgic harking back than a realistic marketing model. It would be more to the point to advocate an even more photographer-oriented interface for the next M.

[Guest findwolfhard]

Hello! Considered pros & cons Erwin does sound really exciting!

best regards Wolfhard

[luigi bertolotti]

Sometimes Puts is really verbose... I think that "a simpler M8" or a "digital equivalent of MP" aren't probable products... DNG only ? well... is it a semplification ? I use DNG only, simply , have almost forgotten the menus abou jpg. No LCD ? Well, how many customers would attract a digicamera "LCDless" ? Even the pro MF digibacks have it... and above all, would its absence mean a real economy ? Not so much, I think, unless you spare on other features, thus obtaining not a simpler M8 but a "cheap M8" ... not a fine product for amateurs.

 

I think the only rational move (apart the upsizing to FF "M9"... when time will come), would be a "Digital CL"... conceptually not far from the Epson RD1... 50%-60% the price of M8, M mount: it would need a NEW DESIGNED RF/VF... this could be an issue...

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Ecaton]

Can it get any simpler and more intuitive then the M8. Honestly, who of us M8 users ever had to read its entire manual? Ever tried that with a monster DSLR?

An ISO/EV dial would be nice. A smaller form coupled with lighter (lower cost) body materials compelling. But the smaller form should not come at the expense of a higher crop factor, unless Leica launched some new wides.