Tilt Shift lenses on the M8 ?

[jackal]

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Boy you post a lot, Jackal.

 

Joined less than a year ago and you've started 51 threads! More than one a week!

 

Respect!

 

 

 

 

its called 'unemployment '

 

 

having said that, my post count is non-existent compared to many others here

[Kent10D]

Tilt/shift? You need one of these ...

 

(This photo was taken with my M8, by the way, so it's not entirely OT )

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[Guest guy_mancuso]

Actually you can to do this pretty easy on a M8 . You can readily available buy Leica 28 R shift lens, than get a Novoflex R to M adapter which is what i used on the Oly , still have that if anyone needs it . Anyway you would have to guess at focus and for alignment you could use a external finder. Now here is where the LCD is a must. I did it this way with the Oly and it does work but not the easiest way to go. And your pretty much tripod bound. pretty normal anyway but it can be done. Maybe the cheapest way to go actually. The 28mm shift you can find on e-bay and there about 1800 US or so. But if you have a DSLR already than I would go that route. Nothing will beat a 4x5 for this stuff but you can do pretty well at it. I used mine for product work and such

[Nitnaros]

Take perspective correction, for example:

 

If you do it in Photoshop rather than via lens-shift, a lot of new pixel information has to be generated (kind of extrapolated).

 

If the correction is large, and you need high-resolution results, this "post-production" treatment can downgrade IQ.

 

Peter

[plasticman]

Mani I should have something good next week for a job I am doing and will get some stuff together to show. I may just post over at my place because don't want to stir the crowd . I will send you a link when I have it together. BTW very nicely built

 

Thanks Guy - much appreciated!

[DerAltenburger]

Correcting converging verticals in a photo often results in bad proportions. Those pictures then must be stretched in width or height to get the right proprtions.

By Correcting photos with grids it's possible that the photo get a unwanted shear movement.

 

For exact correction a photo can be used the tool DigitalPhotoShifter. With this tool it's possible to correct converging verticals with keeping the proportions like in original.

 

Also can corrected converging horizontals at the same time.

 

Rotation- error in Photo will also corrected if neccesary.

 

All correction will be calculated at once with only one interpolation.

 

regards

Frank

 

Here two examples (with original photos the quality would be better interpolated)

 

correcting converging verticals:

correcting converging verticals and horizontals:

[gyoung]

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Correcting converging verticals in a photo often results in bad proportions. Those pictures then must be stretched in width or height to get the right proprtions.

By Correcting photos with grids it's possible that the photo get a unwanted shear movement.

 

For exact correction a photo can be used the tool DigitalPhotoShifter. With this tool it's possible to correct converging verticals with keeping the proportions like in original.

 

Also can corrected converging horizontals at the same time.

 

Rotation- error in Photo will also corrected if neccesary.

 

All correction will be calculated at once with only one interpolation.

 

regards

Frank

 

Here two examples (with original photos the quality would be better interpolated)

 

 

Well you can do that in Photoshop too, but just as with the technical camera just because you can do it doesn't make it useful or pretty. The equivalent of side shift, and gives very disturbing receding perspective!

 

Gerry

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[Philippe D.]

It is unthinkable to use a shift-tilt lens on a rangefinder camera. Of course.

 

On small format, with digital photography and toto's shop, you easily get shift effects (like the picture example shows), but with the tilt you can manage the DOF like no other lens can do, and better than even any plug-in could do.

 

If you absolutely want to have one of such lens for 135 format or even digital reflex camera,

have a look at this link:

Hartblei Set 40/80/120 mm

 

Otherwise, you need such a camera.

 

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Silvestri Flexicam

[chrism]

I've just had one of those "I'm getting old!" moments. I remember my father teaching me about rising fronts on bellows cameras many years ago and had only associated T&S lenses with the needs of architectural photographers. By coincidence yesterday I looked at a New York Times magazine that mentioned a current fad for using T&S lenses to make photographs of scenes look as if they are of tiny but detailed models. Apparently the tightly controlled depth of field causes this illusion - we all recognise when a model is being used in a movie however well made.

 

An example from the web:

 

It has me asking myself whether this is because the human eye has very limited DOF close up, or whether it is learned from looking at photographs so that we unconsciously associate narrow DOF with close up photography? I assume the former as it is so universal a phenomenon, and find it interesting to discover my limited DOF with near focussing this way. We users appreciate very few of the limitations of our eyes - just think how we think we have good resolution over the whole field of view until we get macular degeneration!

 

Chris

[Leica(at)Palatinate]

You need to buy a REFLEX camera for that use.

 

Not necessarily if there is live preview; a M9 might have (eventually and hopefully). Hermann

[DerAltenburger]

Well you can do that in Photoshop too, but just as with the technical camera just because you can do it doesn't make it useful or pretty. The equivalent of side shift, and gives very disturbing receding perspective!

 

Gerry

 

Hi Gerry, that's right. The problem was the nice size of the photo. With bigger original photos (3... MPixel) it's better to result the exakt focal length of the camera by making the picture - i had suggest that in my prev. post.

Here a demo with 35mm focal length (äquivalent to 36x24mm format):

 

Well, also with big sized photos this can't be a fully replacement for a special camera (shift lens or architectural camera), but an alternative.

An optical shift doesn't need any interpolation an has no loss of detailes in the picture.

 

regards

Frank

[gyoung]

Hi Gerry, that's right. The problem was the nice size of the photo. With bigger original photos (3... MPixel) it's better to result the exakt focal length of the camera by making the picture - i had suggest that in my prev. post.

Here a demo with 35mm focal length (äquivalent to 36x24mm format):

 

 

Well, also with big sized photos this can't be a fully replacement for a special camera (shift lens or architectural camera), but an alternative.

An optical shift doesn't need any interpolation an has no loss of detailes in the picture.

 

regards

Frank

 

I agree, its almost always better to do it in the camera than in Photoshop if you can, but in general PC lenses need to be on a tripod, and I don't carry that around all the time, and I can do it with my Leica lenses which are nicer than the Nikon ones. The most I could justify spending to play in my old age was for a used 35 PC Nikkor, the thoughts of splashing out for anything wider or more exotic was daunting, whereas I can use Photoshop on 28 and 21mm shots if I want/need to, that's much closer to what I used to do with 75mm Super Angulon on 5x4.

 

Best Wishes, Gerry

[Riccis]

I agree, its almost always better to do it in the camera than in Photoshop if you can, but in general PC lenses need to be on a tripod

 

Gerry:

 

Back on my DSLR days, I used the Canon 45 TSE lens heavily without any tripods for my engagement sessions (a lot of folks within the wedding industry gave me credit for starting the trend of using TSE lenses on portrait shoots but I doubt it)... Of course, if you are using such lenses for architecture a tripod is definitely needed.

 

 

 

 

 

Did I say I really miss the TS lenses?

 

Cheers,

 

Riccis

[gyoung]

Gerry:

 

Back on my DSLR days, I used the Canon 45 TSE lens heavily without any tripods for my engagement sessions (a lot of folks within the wedding industry gave me credit for starting the trend of using TSE lenses on portrait shoots but I doubt it)... Of course, if you are using such lenses for architecture a tripod is definitely needed.

 

 

 

Did I say I really miss the TS lenses?

 

Cheers,

 

Riccis

 

Riccis, Those look good, I never thought of using such things for social stuff, I was never any good at Portraiture/weddings etc., no patience for people with vanity, moods etc. I am happiest with bits of furniture and buildings that don't answer back!

 

Gerry

[brill64]

I have toyed once or twice with the thought of fitting a shift lens on the m8 but really just that. Obviously the spirit of the camera is that it's not really conceived with this in mind but Ricci's post above does prove that thinking outside the bubble once in a while makes extraordinary, enigmatic images

[zapp]

I do my shifting now in Photoshop, bigger choice of focal lengths than I could afford for the (OT) reflex!

 

Gerrt

 

It is a typical misconception to assume that Photoshop or any other image processing program can do to a single image what a shift lens does. While the results may look similar, Photoshop can only adjust a single plane, but not foreground or background to this plane as a shift lens does. In simple terms, Photoshop is 2D and cannot correct the 3D looks of the entire depth captured in an image, a shift lens can do this because the cone of light is 3D and is shifted before it is captured in 2D.

Perspective correction in Photoshop resembles a projective correction in a single plane only. A shift lens does a perpective correction for the whole image, before it is captured. Most photo-writers have no clue what this means, but anyone with a large format bank should know.

To control tilt and shift and to allow for wide angle TS correction, you need to be able to control the image - either by means of a viewfinder or a ground glass placed in the sensor plane. (you can do without and calculate near and far point of focus, but that takes most of the fun out of it) The viewfinder solution will result in large distortion lenses for wide angles while the groundglass version is only available for medium and large format cameras. A live view digital camera would help, but again the selection of lenses limited to SLR retrofocus lenses if you want anything below 45-60 mm focal length.

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Well just for demo reasons here is the new Nikon 24 shift . I did this handheld so not perfect but normal tilt to get the back ground in than just to throw everything out of focus except one area. Great tool and very nice lens. Now i would love to figure out how to bolt this to the M8 with the LCD screen it would take some work but you can get it done , like I did with shift only on the Oly 24mm

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[Guest guy_mancuso]

Looks like Novolflex has one Novoflex | Lens Adapter Nikon to Leica-M Body | LEM/NIK | B&H

 

 

I guess I need to sell my R to M Novoflex now

[robsteve]

Does the Nikon t/s lens have a mechanical aperture, or will it need an electrical connection to stop down the lens?

 

Robert

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[DerAltenburger]

...

Perspective correction in Photoshop resembles a projective correction in a single plane only. A shift lens does a perpective correction for the whole image, before it is captured. Most photo-writers have no clue what this means, but anyone with a large format bank should know.

...

Sorry, but this can't be the complete truth.

- Its right, a lens project a 3D reality.

- The result of this projektion is only a 2D view of the reality.

- The geometric result on 2D view should be the same

(by optical Shift or exactly correction with suitable software)

Not equal can be:

- effects like Tild

- the quality of pixels - sw needs an interpolation.

- by correcting with sw is a loss of detils/ pixels.

But the geometrical apearence of the shown Details in picture should be similar.

 

With shift lenses also one plane can be corrected exactly - the plan parallel to image- plane in the camera.

For example, only the front of building wich is parallel to image- plan can be correct shown. A front of building wich isn't parralel will apear with perspective. By using shift and by using software too.

 

regards

Frank