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Guest Ridder Cornelius

I Have to express this!

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There certainly has been a lot of this going around lately ... but I don't get it.

 

A forum is a group of people. The scenery tends to be defined by the people in the group, with the people who have been around longest having the greater influence. That's just normal. Any society works the same way.

 

In real life you wouldn't, for example, walk into someone's house or club and start rearranging the furniture to suit yourself, but that seems to be what some people expect to be able to do. Some seem downright incensed that they can't swagger in and be King of the Hill from day one. Sorry, but it just doesn't work like that. Nothing does.

 

For myself I have to say that I'm extremely grateful to this group for the valuable information (and the occasional good laugh) it has provided. If that sounds like a suck-up then you're missing the point and probably won't benefit from being here.

 

But what do I know ... I'm just another old fart with more money than sense (I wish

... I mean about the money part ... the old fart part is true ).

 

Cheers.

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No, the less you say, the better the forum. Go post some pictures indeed
Pascal Who put you in charge of this forum? Telling someone to post pictures is IMHO the same as telling them to F*** O**. Its getting the same on any issue ....no mutual respect or constructive discussion of point of view. Just snappy and nasty responses..when someone complains. And I really don t care what he posted..your intent was to limit his ability to post. Not what I consider in the spirit of an effective forum.

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I am in agreement with Bill Parsons. Just let me add one thing: There are two reasons for looking at a forum:

 

(1) Gaining useful information. This forum has extraordinarily knowledgeable people, who contribute to an understanding of how to get the best out of this camera, as well as how to navigate through issues, whether technical or dealing with Leica. That's the primary reason I joined even before I was able to buy an M8. By the time I'd gotten it, I'd already learned more than a thing or two.

 

(2) Entertainment. You just can't take all these posts too seriously. Read them for what they are worth. And after you have been here a while you will figure out which posts to take seriously, which nes to laugh at, and which ones to ignore.

 

By the way there are some posts that fit both (1) and (2): Mark Norton's dissection of an M8 is one that comes to mind.

 

I like this forum and most of the people who post are likeable and helpful. Sanctimony just isn't very useful (not fitting in category (1) above or entertaining either.

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up front, i like the L-Camera Forum a lot and, despite the occasional rude and ill-mannered posts, find the majority of information and photos to be of high quality. i'll even go one step further and say that, because i don't have a favorite, local, knowledgable leica dealer to answer all my questions, my leica experience would not be as complete or enjoyable without the forum.

 

i also like the Cameraquest website, and joined stephen gandy's CVUG: Cosina Voigtlander User Group Mailing List today . if you have a moment, follow the link and read the list guidelines on his site. you may find them refreshing.

 

Mailing List: CVUG

 

greetings from hamburg

 

rick

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I have not posted here that much lately and have not read many post. Why, becasue it is the same old thing, Nothing New.

 

As soon as I thought the M8 was getting fixed and I could find one I bought one, then I bought a second M8. Since buying the M8 my Nikon gear never left the house and I have since sold all of it. I would rather have a M8 then any other camera. It was the digital camera I was looking for. If the M8 was around in early 2006 I would of never bought the Nikon.

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Pascal Who put you in charge of this forum? Telling someone to post pictures is IMHO the same as telling them to F*** O**. I

 

I guess the same guy that put our new friend here in charge of posting a weekly analysis of our mental health.

 

BTW, I'm surprised you consider it rude to tell someone to post pictures in a photo forum.

Missing something here maybe ?

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Face it, this is the Leica Camera Forum. For users of Leica cameras. I, like many others, had lots of help and found friends here. We seem to like Leica cameras, warts and all. And there are warts enough, most of us know that.

 

And, I admit, we, by and large, tend to dislike people who just barge in, mess all over us and our equipment and expect to be liked.

 

For myself, I kind of smile at our attempts to influence an independent camera company. They may listen, and they may learn. I hope they do. But they are independent with their own opinions, expertise and plans. And challenges.

 

And let us not forget that as of now they are still the only ones who make the kind of equipment that I like. Silly old me . . .

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(2) Entertainment. You just can't take all these posts too seriously. Read them for what they are worth. And after you have been here a while you will figure out which posts to take seriously, which nes to laugh at, and which ones to ignore.

 

Couldn't agree more. There are some incredible egos here, and the amusing thing is that they don't realise how some of their posts would look to an uninterested bystander.

 

The world here outside of the M8 forum seems far more sane most of the time IMHO.

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Your observations are certainly not without basis or merit, Ridder. Witness some of the initial reactions.

 

Several years ago, when the M was just a priced-up Flintstones camera, there was a helpful, congenial cadre of "old-timers" that loitered here. They had been using Leica cameras since fuggettaboutit and knew just about all there was to know about the gadgets and about films.

 

But the spirit here in the newfound digital M forum is far more similar to what you'd find on nearly any other digital photo forum, although with a bit more defensive self-righteousness than you may find at most other forums.

 

To be fair, there are still folks here with very helpful spirits. But the fact is that this is a single-product forum, and the current nature of that product produces quite a few threads featuring complaints and declarations of disappointment. This, in turn, precipitates responses from a kind of ad-hoc defense and denial crew. The helpfully-spirited members understandably shrink into the background when the clouds begin to appear.

 

This may change for the better in the coming years, but I wouldn't count on it. This place is devoted to some of the most expensive (and limited) cameras and lenses available today. The fact that some people have not found photographic nirvana with them can make for a crabby bunch of middle-aged men.

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Guest rweisz

In real life you wouldn't, for example, walk into someone's house or club and start rearranging the furniture

 

In real life very few people would say the kinds of insulting things to someone face to face without considering the consequences. On the internet, a lot of people feel a lot bolder than in real life. If you've been a member of a club for years and years, and one day you decide to start telling other club members there opinions are stupid and worthless and generally insulting them, you're either going to be kicked out or everyone else will eventually leave, nobody new will join, and the club won't have enough members left to be a club.

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Well, as someone who is fairly new to this forum and coming from the Nikon world I have to say that pound for pound L*Camera is at least as intelligent and informative as the "Nikonians" web site. Because it is much smaller, there is more of a "club" atmosphere, and thats not necessarily a bad thing. The bigger these forums get the more generic the viewpoints become and then they are less effective in getting things accomplished.

 

The fact that things get done and resolved as a result of input from the L*Camera forum is what is important, everything else is just fluff!

 

Ron

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Guest stnami
There are some incredible egos here, and the amusing thing is that they don't realise how some of their posts would look to an uninterested bystander
... mine look great as nobody out there fully understands the consequences of why they don't understand

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But Ken, we all know the defects of the Leica M8 and the Leica service reported here. Every time a new owner comes on the forum we have to go through the same old 'its a terrible camera/company' scenario. If you want to say that yet again just do a search and see if you can come up with anything that has not been said before - many times. It just gets so boring. It is not 'head in the sand' it is just repetitively boring.

 

Jeff

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... mine look great as nobody out there fully understands the consequences of why they don't understand

 

I think many understand why they don't understand.

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I think many understand why they don't understand.

 

.....

 

Nice one.

 

Rolo

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Guest stnami

I think many understand why they don't understand.

.... must be their failure to conceptualise their thought patterns from anything but a linear perspective

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... mine look great as nobody out there fully understands the consequences of why they don't understand

 

Come on Imants ... 'fess up ... you're really Dr. Kaufmann's secret forum persona, aren't you.

(I understand what you're talking about. Most of the time. I think

)

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And in 2 weeks, this is your 2nd thread to explain the structure of the forum.

 

Another guy with an oversized ego thinking he knows it all and feeling the urge to share its important discoveries with the world.

And really do not understand why such an attitude is not really welcomed...

Pathetic.

 

P.S: can we expect the lecture once a week ? Is it some kind of obsessive compulsive disorder with you ?

 

Hey! You are the guy who threatens to ban or disallow or ignore people you think are dissing Leica.

 

I understand why you don't like me, I know what I'm talking about. Why are you being an ass to this guy?

 

And if you have a problem with me, angel3001.dana@gmail.com

 

I've left this forum about three times to cool down for a few months because this is THE ONLY forum I know of short of Topix where there are so many people who know so little about electronics, cameras and photography but can say so many ignorant things and get away with it. It isn't a wonder that the Leica management stays as far away from here as possible.

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Sorry, have to note this, it’s not personal, it’s not aimed at anyone, it’s no more than a personal view upon 2-3 weeks of M8 forum participation.

 

It can’t be that the only way to make a successful entrance in to this forum is by sucking up to the long established group of “self proclaimed” experts, or according to some have more than 5xx number of posts or by noting that the M8 is the best thing since sliced bread from the start onwards.

 

Other than the fact that the forum is an interesting one, very lively and informative it is also very arbitrarily conservative in which there is definitely an undocumented pecking order of whom can say what and when and to whom. Newcomers get banned for merely defending themselves against prejudiced comments and accusations that no one in their right mind in “real-life” would take for granted.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Previous members having tried to express their concerns, doubts and critique towards either the Leica Corporation or the M8 product as such have been pestered away or have been driven to defend themselves in a manner causing them to initially be represented as outcast, being treated accordingly and in their defence against the well established “gravy-club” have been banned from participating.

 

I guess you all know what I’m getting at, even being a highly informative and even entertaining forum it leaves me a feeling of disgust participating, and having to choose my words very very carefully in order not to be openly blemished and therefore driving any thread to overall chaos. It seems that only the very few “happy chappies” can get away with this.

 

I have only been a “member” of this forum for two weeks or so but haven’t failed to see the structure needed in order to be accepted. According to some the M8 is the best thing since sliced bread, according to other a 5.000$ piece of agony supported by company whom actually doesn’t know what they are doing, I personally like my M8 although I do see the reason for complaint of many a user, personally I am not worried about but I can see why others are, and I can also see how these so called “complainers” are treated and apparently all in absolute OK status by forum management, or whatever the guardians of these places are called. This will eventually drive potentially interesting participants away and the Leica M8 forum will be nothing more than a club of old farts, congratulating each other on the purchase of this, that and the other and continuously commending each other for owning such a great set of stuff, day after day, weeks after week....

 

It would be nice to see this forum evolve into a nice one where everybody gets the/a chance to either proclaim the M8 as the greatest camera on earth, or the worst possible introduction since Stalinism.... but to be treated and welcomed equally.

 

 

 

Thank You for posting this.

 

You are not alone, and after more then a year at this forum I must agree to most of your writings, although not everything.

Posting here makes me often regret that I did.

This forum can be helpful and informative, and this is why I participate.

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