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pascal_meheut

Making the forum more useful

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I agree Pascal Wiki is a great idea , we just need to make use of it or train ourselves to use it more. That old dog new tricks idea. LOL

 

We can try at least. Writing short articles and redirecting people there is a good idea and a form of "soft" moderation.

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Guest Robert Belasario
Message above is another illustration of the "noise" point. At least not xenophobic as usual but not better.

 

I agree with Guy about the "searching before posting". However, this seems quite rare on many forums.

Some people clearly do not even read the thread they are posting in.

 

More use of the Wiki is a good idea but only if we maintain it in real time to reflect hot issues and if we get the habit of redirecting people there.

 

OK let's cut the crap, and put it in plain English .... the reason why I oppose to your thread is the fact that you of all people start a thread like this one. I think anybody with a clear vision will undertsand that you and you alone are a large reason of numerous threads going sour with your inmature accusations at anybody not sharing your personal point oif view. I won't waste another word this, just wanted to make my oppinion clear.

 

As for what you call "xenophobic" I must add that some of my best and most appreciated co-workers are French.... allas so are some of my worst... but such is life.

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I personally find the OP quite arrogant.

If you can't separate the posts for yourself into 'want to read' and 'don't want to read' then thats your problem.I can manage it quite well.

 

Other forum members do not have to get approval from you to post what they want, as long as the content complies with the forum rules.

 

I am of the opinion that those posters (including myself) who 'whined and complained' about service and pricing should be thanked.

 

The first result is a relaunched upgrade program, thats starting to make sense.

 

It's posts like yours that split good forums into 'them and us', not healthy in my opinion.

 

andy

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I think a lot of issues people were having with their cameras are not exactly only about technical difficulties but also many other problems with Leica's way of handling their business.

 

Most often ... people complain about the long delay, turnaround in service. Is this a technical issue or just human factor?

 

The camera has less than 15 buttons and knobs, and 72 pages manual cover to cover ... I'm afraid the only way to keep it right on spot is discussing about the instruction manual and maybe we shall suggest Leica provide the service handbook

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I am of the opinion that those posters (including myself) who 'whined and complained' about service and pricing should be thanked.

 

The first result is a relaunched upgrade program, thats starting to make sense.

 

I'm not sure it works this way. Manufacturers have many ways to know what their customers think besides Internet forums.

Listening to those would just push them to commit suicide rather than improving their products and offers

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I personally handle it this way:

 

I read what I find interesting. I don't read what I find boring.

 

If I have something valuable to add, I do so.

 

If not, I shut up.

 

It ain't that difficult.

 

I rather shoot pictures than waste my time.

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Guest Robert Belasario

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I personally handle it this way:

 

I read what I find interesting. I don't read what I find boring.

 

If I have something valuable to add, I do so.

 

If not, I shut up.

 

It ain't that difficult.

 

I rather shoot pictures than waste my time.

 

Reminds me of a "Talking Heads" song ... was it Psychokiller.... :-) ahhh good old times when there where no M8', d3 and full frame sensors

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Guest Robert Belasario

so actually the way to go in this forum would be:

 

"You start a conversation you cant even finish it.

Youre talkin a lot, but youre not sayin anything.

When I have nothing to say, my lips are sealed.

Say something once, why say it again? "

 

 

... obviously lyrics by the multi talented David Byrne, whom actually uses/used an M4

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Reminds me of a "Talking Heads" song ... was it Psychokiller.... :-) ahhh good old times when there where no M8', d3 and full frame sensors

 

hahaha! I second that.

 

(now, was that valuable or not, I wonder...)

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Yep, exactly, and that's exactly the way it operates now. If you dare to say anything even remotely critical of the M8 or Leica corporation, a squadron of drones flies out of the hive and does its best to drive him off. If they aren't successful, then they try to sting him to death. The accusations and allegations become so personal and malicious that few people can swallow their self-respect indefinitely, and the moment they respond defensively the attackers launch a barrage of complaints to the moderation to get the interloper banned. The dynamics at work here are very transparent.

 

 

I am sorry, Cordell, but I find Your comments destructive in a thread.

It is true that Leica made mistakes, it is true that M8 has flaws, but the idea of forum (in may humble opinion) is that we all try to be helpful, and constructive- it is also important that try to keep our ego promotion out of discussion, so that the discussion itself doesn't turn into meaningless shouting at each other.

The fact that one writes here is showing one`s will to participate in problem solving, expirience sharing etc...

Criticism with no hard fundations of this and that is certainly waste of threads space- and it appears as noise.

Please take this in a friendly manner- if You don't agree bash me, but with good arguments... and we have ourselves a good forum.

 

Regards,

 

 

Marko

 

Humor is also important.

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I personally handle it this way:

 

I read what I find interesting. I don't read what I find boring.

 

If I have something valuable to add, I do so.

 

If not, I shut up.

 

It ain't that difficult.

 

I rather shoot pictures than waste my time.

 

Thank you - I agree!

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Guest stnami

Aahhhummm.......... interesting, no:p ............ I'm going to go to another thread to shoot my mouth off..................nothing if note here

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Guest Robert Belasario
I am sorry, Cordell, but I find Your comments destructive in a thread.

It is true that Leica made mistakes, it is true that M8 has flaws, but the idea of forum (in may humble opinion) is that we all try to be helpful, and constructive- it is also important that try to keep our ego promotion out of discussion, so that the discussion itself doesn't turn into meaningless shouting at each other.

The fact that one writes here is showing one`s will to participate in problem solving, expirience sharing etc...

Criticism with no hard fundations of this and that is certainly waste of threads space- and it appears as noise.

Please take this in a friendly manner- if You don't agree bash me, but with good arguments... and we have ourselves a good forum.

 

Regards,

 

 

Marko

 

Humor is also important.

 

 

 

 

I actually think that Elvis (cordell) has a right to raise his voice, as anyone on this forum. Like me he has been confronted with a "bad" M8 camera which he had to return etc. etc, You ight of had the luck of recieving a perfect M8, other haven't but still paid a steep price. The fact remaind that if it functions well, the camera is good, I have returned mine twice, the camera might still be perfect but it does put a bit of a blemish on it all, we are talking about a 5.000$ contraption here. And the saying "once theprice is forgotten, the quality prevails" doesn't always work now does it... The m8 is not perfect, it's nice, but not perfect and the fact that people get bugged by the imperfection is only natural, at least Cordell is honest about his vision og the M8, I do believe there are quite a number of users thinking similar thoughts but not bringing them out for not wanting to realize that they'v been "had" so to speak ....

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Forums that are under moderated seem to all suffer the same fate. What starts as "lively free expression" always devolves into tirades, mean spiritedness and rancor.

The Photo.net forum is a great example of a forum that consumed itself while the moderators fiddled.

 

All freedoms must have a limit because it's human nature to run amok when there doesn't seem to be ground rules. I WISH it were so that we could all just filter the junk and enjoy the good, but has anyone found a place where that happens WITHOUT strong moderation?

 

I do like the "ignore" function, but that's hardly going to work if the people who enjoy creating rancor are allowed to make a mockery of civil conversation. Perhaps this forum is just too large to be manageable.

 

I'm pretty surprised how many angry people there are here. Seems that if we can afford to spend $5k on a camera we are doing pretty well in life and should try to enjoy it while we can. It's hard to feel too much sympathy for ourselves as a group when we all moan about our megabuck cameras and lenses doing this or that. Does a man with a broken Rolls Royce deserve our sympathy or our middle finger?

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As a Moderator, this is my POV. Agree or disagree, your prerogative.

 

We are supposed to be adult in our behaviour here. A number fail to comprehend that or abide by it. They are best ignored IMHO. I am assuming most posters here are similar to me, they have a life to live and a job to go to. All of that is too short to waste on hollow, vacuous, point scoring, grand standing comments. And that is the sum content of some posts. In the first place I don't have the time to read all posts, and I shouldn't need to. In the second place I am getting a bit impatient with some of the reports that come into my mail box which on the one hand complain about other posters (everybodies right to so do) but use such bad, derogatory and foul language to do it that if their comments were posted on the forum it would lead to deletion of their post and possible banning. I am no prude about language but I am singularly unimpressed by some complainants own style, to put it politely.

 

I will be referring the names of recidivists to Admin and other mods, to ensure I am not out of line on this, but I am puting myself on record for my attitude so you know what you are dealing with.

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Various posts on this thread are calling for stronger/more aggressive moderation. I'd like to say that I think the current level of moderation is correct, and the comments that both Andy and Erl have made represent the "right" approach to moderation.

 

IMHO, unless a poster is (a) making a personal attack on another member, (

saying something that will be egregiously offensive to a particular group or © being blatantly commercial, they should be able to have their say. Were it not for the "complainers" on this forum, we'd still have dismal AWB, not know why synthetic fabrics had color casts, etc, etc.

 

Sandy

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Were it not for the "complainers" on this forum, we'd still have dismal AWB, not know why synthetic fabrics had color casts, etc, etc.

 

First, I still do not believe that the "complainers" I'm talking about have something to do with the fixing of the color casts.

Because I know most of the people who worked on it by having one of them.

 

And what attracted the attention of Leica was not 100 posts saying "this is scandal on such an expensive camera" but direct communication we had with them and images to show the problem.

 

Another example: the next big changes Leica proposes are a more silent shutter and a better screen glass. If some people asked for the first one here, it did not generate a lot of complaints and nobody asked for the 2nd on the forum.

 

And please notice that having the option of changing things have generated a lot of whining too. One could thing that the more options we have, the more lenses available, the more happy we should be.

But apparently, Dan States is right (and this is my point too): too many people are here to express their anger because their Rolls is not as reliable as their Mercedes. Or to explain that should they be in the car business, they would do much better even if they never tried.

 

IMHO, unless a poster is (a) making a personal attack on another member, (

saying something that will be egregiously offensive to a particular group or © being blatantly commercial, they should be able to have their say.

 

 

Of course. That's why I'm not asking for a stronger moderation and I know I'm out of line too sometimes.

But something different is happening here, IMHO. Just suppose you are with 10 friends, having a good evening and talking about everything.

1 or 2 of them are really pissed off by your president at the time and won't talked about anything else and will do nothing but express their disappointment, rage...

Well, it is normal to talk politics between friends but in this case, a minority may quite well ruin the pleasure of talking to them.

 

I cannot post examples because I do not want to name names but I've noticed this in several threads recently and that even much more kind and patient people than I am are spending time replying to the guy who think we are all too rich dentists just spending money, that the M8 cannot be used professionnaly nor the DMR despite all evidences of the contrary, etc

 

So right now, this thread has learned me 2 things: I'm looking at the wiki to see if I can improve it and I've started to use the "Ignore List".

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Guest stnami
I do not want to name names but
...... but I will describe his posts so everyone knows who he is............ yep! that's making the forum more usefull

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...... but I will describe his posts so everyone knows who he is............ yep! that's making the forum more usefull

 

This thread is not about 1 person or even 2 or 3. But I do not know how to describe something precisely without giving any examples.

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