delander † Posted February 27, 2008 Share #21 Posted February 27, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) It is interesting that AP still has some clout, at last with Leica. It would be better to read this sort of stuff on Leica's website not APs Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 27, 2008 Posted February 27, 2008 Hi delander †, Take a look here Leica Statement on the M8's Future. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Guest Cordell Posted February 27, 2008 Share #22 Posted February 27, 2008 Published on the AP web-site: Leica issues statement on M8 future news - Amateur Photographer - news, camera reviews, lens reviews, camera equipment guides, photography courses, competitions, photography forums So, is the upgrade program (shutter+screen, not referring to FF) dead or alive? I never had any desire for the actual features but I was looking fwd to being able to get another 2 years of warranty when mine expire. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddp Posted February 27, 2008 Share #23 Posted February 27, 2008 For 8 years, Nikon users "opted" fro DX crop DSLR's in their lineup. Now the D3 gives them another option....and they have made marked strides with that beast. Many of us M users WANT full frame, but when faced with the choice of M8 or....oh wait... Build a full frame M, make it the flagship AND offer a stripped down, entry level crop factor body to complement the Summarit budget line. From reading these forums, Leica has the IQ thing down pat, right? So trickle down that sensor stuff to a new body and entice people into the fold that way. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 27, 2008 Share #24 Posted February 27, 2008 Problem is;it is at present a technical impossibility. Zeiss have stated they will build a FF RF as soon as it is possible. I haven't seen one yet.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted February 27, 2008 Share #25 Posted February 27, 2008 So, is the upgrade program (shutter+screen, not referring to FF) dead or alive? I never had any desire for the actual features but I was looking fwd to being able to get another 2 years of warranty when mine expire. The AP statement is modest in style but simple and clear : they think of FF, they do not promise anything, M8 goes on; for me, they have done the right thing not mentioning the "perpetual upgrade" program... surely the dealer channel would hate to have it re-mentioned and there is no need to make official declarations on it ... the first upgrade I think will go on... maybe with a soft scheduling (for what we have red here, the new shutter already "exists", and the LCD glass ... don't see any problem), then, ongoing, they could simply decide that sometimes thay'll make it available some new detail, not so "striking" like FF sensor or electronic frames, but useful anyway (say, a new battery type with proper circuitry... or a new card reader to support some future tech...) : nothing spectacular, but simple & useful updating, and the promise is maintained... it was Lee's way to exaggerately emphasize this program that, imho, arisen a lot of rumors, expectations, grumbling in the channel... but it can be realized softly and smartly, if they want. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted February 27, 2008 Share #26 Posted February 27, 2008 If the M8 is to continue to be the flagship camera into 2009, where does that leave the R10? I guess they'll have to re-evaluate the "R10" too ... I can't see how it will be successful without fully exploiting the current R system customer base, while having difficulties to attract auto-focus users from competitors. If they fail to attract ... for example, 100000 customers to buy into the new "R10" system ... to break even ... then it'll become a disaster. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cordell Posted February 27, 2008 Share #27 Posted February 27, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) The AP statement is modest in style but simple and clear ROTFL! The rest of your remarks make it sound like you're as left out there hanging in the breeze as I am, with nothing to offer but your own opinion and speculation. I agree, it doesn't say whether the upgrade program will come to fruition or not. But remember, all of us with M8's received an official memo from Leica, and it was/is on their website. So if they do abort the upgrade program they can't very well say that it was something they were merely considering and Lee blurted it out prematurely to the press. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cordell Posted February 27, 2008 Share #28 Posted February 27, 2008 If they fail to attract ... for example, 100000 customers to buy into the new "R10" system ... to break even ... then it'll become a disaster. Does anyone know the sales stats for the R8 and R9? Did they sell anywhere near 100K? I know they only made about 5K of the DMR's. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eoin Posted February 27, 2008 Share #29 Posted February 27, 2008 Well, assuming an announcement in 2009 with delivery back end of 2009 or Q1 2010. Then allowing for the beta testers (once bitten twice shy) to identify all the faults I'm guessing early 2011 might be the time I'd consider re-investing in a body. That's about 4.5 years of use with the M8 (assuming it lasts that long ). But I won't be upgrading just for the sake of full frame, that doesn't bother me in the slightest. My decision will be based on the improvement gained in image quality, high ISO and RF accuracy. Perhaps even UV/IR way not be an issue anymore. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted February 27, 2008 Share #30 Posted February 27, 2008 So, is the upgrade program (shutter+screen, not referring to FF) dead or alive? With the M8 continuing to be their flagship product into 2009, I think there has to be some kind of upgrade program to keep it viable. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted February 27, 2008 Share #31 Posted February 27, 2008 If they fail to attract ... for example, 100000 customers to buy into the new "R10" system ... to break even ... then it'll become a disaster. Now that’s an ambitious goal … I think they will be content with less. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddp Posted February 27, 2008 Share #32 Posted February 27, 2008 With the M8 continuing to be their flagship product into 2009, I think there has to be some kind of upgrade program to keep it viable. Before the upgrade program was ever announced, most users maintained that it had the IQ and everything else they needed to keep it viable....yes? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted February 27, 2008 Share #33 Posted February 27, 2008 Before the upgrade program was ever announced, most users maintained that it had the IQ and everything else they needed to keep it viable....yes? It’s just that you cannot just offer the same model year after year – at some point, everyone potentially interested in getting an M8 has got one and while there will be a constant trickle of sales even then, it will be a far cry from the first rush of sales when the camera was introduced. Other vendors would first lower the price of the old model and then replace it by a new model, but Leica doesn’t (they simply cannot lower the price, for one thing), so they have to do something else to renew the interest in the M8. Offering updates from time to time might do the trick, even when only a small percentage of camera owners would actually buy each upgrade. After all, not everyone is replacing their camera by its successor either, even when there is a one or two year product cycle. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddp Posted February 27, 2008 Share #34 Posted February 27, 2008 It’s just that you cannot just offer the same model year after year – at some point, everyone potentially interested in getting an M8 has got one and while there will be a constant trickle of sales even then, it will be a far cry from the first rush of sales when the camera was introduced. Other vendors would first lower the price of the old model and then replace it by a new model, but Leica doesn’t (they simply cannot lower the price, for one thing), so they have to do something else to renew the interest in the M8. Offering updates from time to time might do the trick, even when only a small percentage of camera owners would actually buy each upgrade. After all, not everyone is replacing their camera by its successor either, even when there is a one or two year product cycle. Obviously. My comment was really based on what some have posted on this forum and other forums regarding the M8's longevity, future status and the value it may retain. Of course many will still be shooting it in 5 years, but I suspect it's most ardent supporters will still feel the need to get the latest and greatest. This is the way when it comes to almost any product.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted February 27, 2008 Author Share #35 Posted February 27, 2008 It's long been the case that the entry point to using Leica lenses is to buy secondhand ones and if a new digital M body does come along, that will create a healthy supply of secondhand bodies and the price will drop enough to attract new entrants into the digital M system. Or at least, that's the way one theory might have it. The problem is, the M8 will be seen as having been problematic from Day 1 and that might scare people off - a bit like buying a sports car that burns its way through clutches or a horse that wheezes... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KM-25 Posted February 27, 2008 Share #36 Posted February 27, 2008 Before the upgrade program was ever announced, most users maintained that it had the IQ and everything else they needed to keep it viable....yes? In theory, when I look at the photos from a regular distance, I see great image quality. But when it comes right down to it, 10 MP is definitely holding the better aspherics back. In high contrast situations, I still get strange blooming and other artifacts. And lets not even go there in regards to moire.. It's nice, but there is definitely room for improvement. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted February 27, 2008 Author Share #37 Posted February 27, 2008 So, is the upgrade program (shutter+screen, not referring to FF) dead or alive? I never had any desire for the actual features but I was looking fwd to being able to get another 2 years of warranty when mine expire. If you don't want either of the new features, $1800 is an insane amount of money to pay just in case your M8 goes wrong - 1/3 of the price of a new camera. Better put it in the bank and who knows, you might come out ahead. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KM-25 Posted February 27, 2008 Share #38 Posted February 27, 2008 One should read the comment by Damien Demolding as well. That is very sensible and seems about all there can be said on the matter. Earth-shattering it is not. There are not many M photographers clamoring for a 36 mm sensor, although they are vocal. You are making the classic internet hype mistakes here: 1. You are assuming and speaking for everyone. 2. You most definitely missing information. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted February 27, 2008 Share #39 Posted February 27, 2008 Now that’s an ambitious goal … I think they will be content with less. I guess I should talk about making a "good" profit instead of eying on "breaking even" ... especially when their Q3 profit of 1.8 millions is considered BAD by the board, then how much is GOOD? If we account all Q3 profit for M8 sales, and suppose the unit profit (incl. lens and accessories sales generated from each camera body) is 3000 euros ... only 600 M8s were sold in Q3. Will the new R10 be more popular than any new M? now I don't know. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted February 27, 2008 Share #40 Posted February 27, 2008 The 'perpetual' program has not been canceled from the Leica site yet. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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