stunsworth Posted February 24, 2008 Share #81 Posted February 24, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) In all honesty why would anyone buy an m7 while he can get an FM3a at a fraction of the price, and in all honesty again nobody would be able to discover the difference in the images taken by both at a normal 24x36cm print I think you've missed the whole point of why a _photographer_ (as opposed to a collector) gets into the Leica M system. To misquote a US politician. "It's the viewfinder stupid" (and no, I'm not calling you stupid <grin>). It's a different way of seeing the world compared to using an SLR. I've used both SLR and rangefinder, and hand on heart using my first M - it was an M2 - was a transcendental experience. Perhaps the Nikon lenses are as good, or nearly as good, as the Leica ones; but _I_ don't care. Then M system has given me something that none of the SLRs I've ever used have. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 24, 2008 Posted February 24, 2008 Hi stunsworth, Take a look here The beginng of the end for Leica. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
marknorton Posted February 24, 2008 Share #82 Posted February 24, 2008 What does <grin> mean, Steve? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted February 24, 2008 Share #83 Posted February 24, 2008 What does <grin> mean, Steve? For some reason when Steve inserts this smiley face it shows up as the code and not the face. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted February 24, 2008 Share #84 Posted February 24, 2008 I think you've missed the whole point of why a _photographer_ (as opposed to a collector) gets into the Leica M system. To misquote a US politician. "It's the viewfinder stupid" (and no, I'm not calling you stupid <grin>). It's a different way of seeing the world compared to using an SLR. I've used both SLR and rangefinder, and hand on heart using my first M - it was an M2 - was a transcendental experience. Perhaps the Nikon lenses are as good, or nearly as good, as the Leica ones; but _I_ don't care. Then M system has given me something that none of the SLRs I've ever used have. Had an FM3a; nice camera. Have an M7 different league. Oh, and I'm not a collector. Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted February 24, 2008 Share #85 Posted February 24, 2008 What does <grin> mean, Steve? It means I don't think Robert is stupid. I don't like using the little smiley giffs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted February 24, 2008 Share #86 Posted February 24, 2008 Well, judging how often you use it, you must be one happy chappie... I am. To be honest I use it because I don't think I write very well. I don't have the grasp of language that I would like to have. When writing the kind of 'postcard' messages that are written on internet forums it's very easy to write something that can be seen as somewhat ambiguous. I want to make sure that people realise that I'm writing what I believe rather being sarcastic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted February 24, 2008 Share #87 Posted February 24, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) Fair enough... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesphoto99 Posted February 25, 2008 Share #88 Posted February 25, 2008 W You probably ought to try the breakdancers with an 8 x 10 view. Think of the improved resolution. Why does everything have to be about resolution all the time? The reason I chose to shoot on medium format was about the distinct LOOK I achieved, and not the resolution per se (though that comes with it) setting my images apart form the droves of dslr, ttl flash toting, ultra wide zooming, sheep out there. :D The images are immediately different looking upon observation even to those who don't know a 120 camera from a 126. Yes, it was expensive, at times frustrating (those damn rolls run out after 12 shots!) and after nearly 1000 rolls of film have yielded me an extremely tight edit of 84 pictures. But ultimately worth doing it differently, even for just the hell of doing it different! Anyway, after all that I'm enjoying shooting some projects with the M8 (no film expense and a lot easier on the shoulders). I would like to use an 8X10 someday, but I'll have to find just the right extreme sport to shoot with it. I'm so tired of the idea that technology somehow supplants talent. They are tools and some of us know how to use some better than others (I still can't get a damn AF camera to ever focus on what I want it to:o !) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografr Posted February 26, 2008 Share #89 Posted February 26, 2008 I reckon that I will be still shootin my mouth off in 10 years time,,,,,,,,,,,,,, No friggin doubt about that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
danyves Posted February 26, 2008 Share #90 Posted February 26, 2008 Results for Leica 4Q 2007 -15,86% Der leidenschaftliche Leica-Liebhaber Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken_tanaka Posted February 26, 2008 Share #91 Posted February 26, 2008 I cannot read the German article so I will take your "-15.86%" quote to signify a year-over-year drop in earnings. Please correct me if needed. I don't necessarily share the dire prediction of the "end of Leica". But it's clear that Leica spent far, far more in support of what was probably, in retrospect, a premature release of the M8. Aside from the enormous amount of warranty service they've had to offer on these cameras the whole IR filter fiasco must have eroded their success badly. Let's hope that Leica will be able to heal this bruise and work towards continuing the M line in a more positively spectacular fashion in years to come. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
danyves Posted February 26, 2008 Share #92 Posted February 26, 2008 I cannot read the German article so I will take your "-15.86%" quote to signify a year-over-year drop in earnings. Please correct me if needed. I. Yes over one year for 4Q results dropped from Euros 45.4 to 38,2 Millions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted February 26, 2008 Share #93 Posted February 26, 2008 ...I don't like using the little smiley giffs. Neither do I. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrc Posted February 26, 2008 Share #94 Posted February 26, 2008 Leica is effectively part of a holding company (although it retains technical independence) and so, depending on German and Austrian laws, may have a little more financial flexibility than if it were completely isolated. Nevertheless, it's going to have to show some long-term viability, or, I suspect, it'll be sold off for whatever it's brand name is worth. IMHO, that means that it's time to take a long look at the M and actually try to made a modern camera out of it. That means things like accurate electronic frames in the viewfinder that adjust to each lens, and focus confirmation of some kind, and a better sensor, and an auto-ISO selection, and better design. Perhaps there could be a menu switch so traditionalists could turn off what they don't want, but the modern options have to be there. If the R10 doesn't have something that makes it radically better, or different, than the top-end Nikons and Canons, then I think a new R camera will be a waste of Leica's money. They'd be better off offering sophisticated Leica lenses for the Canon and Nikon systems, as Zeiss does, and drop their own SLR system altogether. Is is *possible* that Leica will come up with an SLR that WILL be differentiated enough from the Nikons and Canons to actually offer something that will allow the system to survive -- but I doubt it. Leica simply hasn't shown itself to be an innovative company. Look at the rangefinder Epson put together in what seemed almost an after-thought, or an experiment -- in many ways, the design is better and more interesting than the M8, and also a lot cheaper. Leica needs to focus like a laser on the M system, and finally modernize it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 26, 2008 Share #95 Posted February 26, 2008 Results for Leica 4Q 2007 -15,86% Der leidenschaftliche Leica-Liebhaber Is that a surprise? The first M8 buying wave has run its course, the R10 has not yet impacted. What is surprising, is that the company is still firmly in the black, we have seen differently in the past. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
danyves Posted February 26, 2008 Share #96 Posted February 26, 2008 As some do say maybe it is the R line which is the origin of this financial decline in results. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 26, 2008 Share #97 Posted February 26, 2008 Leica needs to focus like a laser on the M system, and finally modernize it. Yes- and chase away all current Leica M customers. The primary strength they have is the traditionalist approach. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 26, 2008 Share #98 Posted February 26, 2008 I cannot read the German article so I will take your "-15.86%" quote to signify a year-over-year drop in earnings. Please correct me if needed. The article is extremely superficial, and does not specify the numbers. It also claims that Mr Kaufmann is having difficulties with the shareholders who want a quick return. That is an amazing statement - which other shareholders??? Basically the article says one thing: Mr Kaufmann has bought the company because he is a Leica fan and he is putting money into it - nothing else. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted February 26, 2008 Share #99 Posted February 26, 2008 The article is extremely superficial, and does not specify the numbers. It also claims that Mr Kaufmann is having difficulties with the shareholders who want a quick return. That is an amazing statement - which other shareholders???... Kaufman is acting for his account and on behalf of investors he represents IMHO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlatkob Posted February 26, 2008 Share #100 Posted February 26, 2008 I imagine that a great designer could do both: modernize it and keep the traditionalist approach. For example, the complaints of a lack of grippiness suggest an obvious avenue for modernization without losing the traditional elements. Leica could make subtle changes to the body to make it easier to grip -- a better covering and a bit of contour by the thumb. I suspect that such changes would be much appreciated. I suppose someone might complain that the camera had become "too easy" to grip, but that would be an odd complaint. The complaints of innacurate framelines suggest another avenue for modernization. There is a striking difference between the M and R designs. The M looks fresh out the 1950's, while the R is very curvy, modern and grippy. If the R body shape had been locked way back in time, it would be stunningly anachronistic at this point. A traditionalist can appreciate and use the current R without wishing that it looked like the first Leica SLR. My guess is that as long as the essence of the machine is kept, or even strengthened, then smart steady steps toward improving it will meet with approval from most tradtionalists. The fact that the M has even become digital supports this theory -- it has been modernized in that one aspect and has for the most part kept its traditional elements. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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