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Zeiss Sonnar 1.5/5cm LTM


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Most of these wartime beasts are postwar fakes, from russia with love.

 

I own an original, confirmed by a Zeiss historian. It is the type of lens "HCB" usd for years.

 

It just received a complete CLA, and the glass has no scratches - but the old coating has some stains that my repairman can not remove. It had been used with a screwmount Leica on a german submarine during the war, the spots were created by salt water. It did not affect the glass itself, but the coating is not so beautiful.

 

My question for the experienced collectors: is it possible to re-coat such a lens?

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Rather than recoating the front element, have you thought of buying a coated 5cm F1.5 in Contax mount and swapping the front element? I've done this with other Sonnar lenses with good results. I've also done this with collapsible Summicrons, but a bit more care was required.

 

If the front optic has to be ground down slightly to take off the coating, its focal length will change. That can throw the lens off as much as simply replacing the front optic. Chances are, the lens will need shimming either way. That is easy with the Zeiss lenses, as they have a variable stand-off ring. Worst part is re-aligning the aperture ring.

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I would leave it alone. A few blemishes like that really do not affect the lens significantly.

I have two Summicrons, one with perfect coatings and the other has a few serious wipe marks. You can't tell the difference, between the two in practice.

 

If you have it recoated you will change it's optical fingerprint and it will also reduce it's monetary value. You're very lucky to own an original Sonnar, enjoy it as it is.

 

The Zeiss Ikon Contax Camera Home

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  • 4 months later...

I wouldn't either...

I own several early Zeiss coated lenses in contax and LTM mounts and it would be stupid to recoat one and loose the authenticity...

 

the main problem with real Zeiss sonnar in LTM is that they are prone to "get lost"... in fact there is a little difference between the focal length of a Zeiss 50mm and Leica 50mm and it means that the total focusing system had to be adapted...

For wartime production it seems that the lens was not recalculed and kept it's 52mm or so focal length, on a non compensated helicoïd it's impossible to have infinite and near distance equally transmitted to the rangefinder... you have to choose or to go for a middle... with a 1,5 sonnar it has immediate effect (so go for infinite)...

 

this variation of focal length had effect on the russian production (a jupiter 8 is a basically a sonnar f2) the jup for kiev are 52mm or near... while at one point they decided to recalculate the LTM ones (standard lens for zorki and other ltm bodies).

 

 

concerning HCB use of sonnars on leica... it's not sure about the fact that he was using a Zeiss Ltm lens and there are photographical evidence of him using a contax mount biogon 35 with an adapter (focusing adapter or not ? who knows...), it's probable that he used sonnar with an adapter too... adapter don't have the same helicoïd transmission problem.

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I've been shimming Sonnar's to optimize focus when used close-up and wide-open for the Leica. The Sonnar Focus-Shift is rearward as you stop down, so infinity focus is usually good at F2.8. The Pre-war and war-time Carl Zeiss Jena 5cm F1.5 will fit into a J-3 focus mount, and the collapsible 5cm f2 Sonnar will fit into a J-8 mount. On some lenses, it was necessary to swap the variable stand-off ring and the aperture ring. The optics module and shims were interchangeable.

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a set of sonnar ... 2 original contax mount (left) and LTM... all are wartime T lenses of various finish ... one is a very special post war artisanal production...

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i can't help you with the decision to modify a rare lens. i had no choice with the front element of my summarit 1.5 - it was simply too hazy with cleaning marks to be used. so, IF you decide to have the front element recoated, here are two addresses:

 

1) john van stelten's

NEW ADDRESS BELOW

 

 

John Van Stelten

Focal Point, Inc.

300 Center Drive

Suite G-177

Superior, Co 80027

303-665-6640

john@focalpointlens.com

Welcome to Focal Point Lens Inc.

 

2) i live in europe, so i found and used the following u.k. company for recoating:

Roy Atkinson

 

Optical Instruments (Balham) Limited.

39 Neville Court, 27/43 Neville Road,

Croydon, Surrey

CR0 2DS

Tel: 020 8664 9799

Fax: 020 8664 9771

E-mail: oib.ltd@btconnect.com <mailto:oib.ltd@btconnect.com>

 

i'm not a pro, but the lens looks great to my eye and works well. you may want other references from OIB before proceeding.

 

good luck

 

rick

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A wartime 5cm F2 "T" Sonnar in a J-8 mount. Total cost $70. $35 for the Contax mount lens, $35 for the J-8.

 

2642553426_c56f12462e.jpg

 

Rather than recoat the front element, a 5cm F1.5 "T" in Contax mount will run under $150. I paid $120 for mine, a beautiful coated front element. Swap out the front element, or swap out the entire optics module. It will be cheaper than recoating the front element, and you can always "go back" to the original configuration.

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swap the entire module... it's safer...

you should take a sonnar in the 3000000 range from CZJ, later opton or CZ(non jena) models are not exactly the same)

Don't destroy a T sonnar below 3000000 they are wartime production and valuable too.

 

key serial numbers... about T coated zeiss lens (any mount) with the Carl Zeiss Jena name

-below 2200000 probably non original coating (or factory converted)

-between 2200000 and 2600000, preproduction models and embargo period... rare, rarest... and more

-between 2600000 and 3000000 wartime production (rare in 50mm, very rare in other focal length)

-above 3000000 post-war jena production

production in the west resumed with different name : Carl Zeiss or Zeiss-opton , but the optical formulas are a little different...

  • Haha 1
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there is another solution if you want to use a historical sonnar on a M body, someone in hong kong is manufacturing adapters that are perfectly functionnal and very nice looking.

They allow to use 50mm contax mount lenses and 85/135 sonnars on your M... but not the biogon 35...

But If you want an HCB configuration, you must find a true Orion adapter (contax to LTM), but it would cost you more than the Leica and the lens...

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I just purchased a Contax to Leica adaptor on Ebay from a guy who sells them all the time and it works perfectly at all apertures and distances. The original Sonnar 1.5 and 2 are truly outstanding lenses and to my eye have much more character than the modern double gauss designs. Loads of detail in the shadows and smooth out of focus regions. Love em!

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I also have three Contax/Nikon mount to Leica Mount adapters. One even has a custom cut in the RF cam to correct for the difference in focal length between Contax and Leica. The focus action is not as smooth as the "converted" lenses. I do use them with a Zeiss-Opton Sonnar, which is different construction than the pre-war and wartime lenses.

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