new Noctilux??

[chrisweeks]

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@Olsen: "First of all, I regard them as collector's items that I can impress neighbors and friends, who, most probably, don't understand the significance of aparture 1,0 anyway"

 

speak for yourself, mate. this lens is amazing for what it's meant to used for. one of my favourite lenses to use on a frequent basis.

[lars_bergquist]

This is not correct, is it? I think you refer to the first Summilux 50mm here and not the Noctilux. The first Noctilux, the 1.2/50mm from 1966, was a radical design with its two aspherical and manualle grinded lens elements. This lens was supposedly a nightmare to produce and only around a 1000 were made until it was replaced by the 1.0/50 in 1976. This is the oldest Leica M lens still in production, but as far as I know the design was not derived from the old Xenon, although they are both double Gauss which goes back even longer.

I was of course speaking of the basic Xenon/Summarit/Summilux v. I/Noctilux v.II DESIGN, a double Gaussian 7 element layout with the last element replaced with two very flat biconvex, freestanding lens elements. Until about 1970 this layout remained the norm for superspeed 50mm lenses. The Japanese used it quite a lot. Leitz abandoned it however in 1961/62 when they secretly introduced the v. II 50mm Summilux, which remained in production until 2002. The first version Noctilux (f:1.2) as you correctly state was a theoretically very plain 6-element double Gaussian design, but a dog to produce – less than 1000 did actually leave the factory from 1966 to 1976! So it was really a revival when Mandler took it up again.

 

The old man from the Age of Box Cameras

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[tollie]

totally disagree. The noctilux can produce incredible pictures like few other lenses. Still life, portrait, landcsape, nightime, pretty much anything ...and its not soley because of F1. You just don't know how to use it properly or in an inspired creative way.

 

Indeed your flicker pics with the noctilux are wonderful...

 

...but you have the advantage of a simply charming (if small) model.

[voightL]

Heard the new Noctilux that will be unveiled at Photokina will be a "limited" edition one. For those who want one, better start saving NOW!

[wlaidlaw]

If Leica think the greatest need is to replace the Noctilux, I think they are mistaken. 28mm on an M8 is not that wide and Leica has just 3 lenses out of 18 total in the range.

 

I'd like to see them fix the 35mm Summilux first, then introduce one or more wide-angle Elmars (18/21/24), licence the Zeiss Distagon design and Leica-ize it to produce a 16mm Elmarit and then I'd like a 28mm Summilux. So not much, really.

 

Mark,

 

They don't really need to fix the 35 Summilux, they just need to make the existing one properly. As my 35 APSH Summilux proves, they can make one which neither back-focuses nor aperture shifts to any significant degree. I am seriously wondering if I should leave it with them for coding, when I visit Solms next month. I am concerned that the new bayonet will not be as accurate as the existing one, resulting in back-focus but what I am really worried about is that they will take mine apart to see why it does not aperture shift ;-}}

 

Wilson

[Mauribix]

Recently I read a story, which I can't confirm or deny, but interesting though, regarding poisonous elements in glass production. Lead is well known, with Beryllium as another example.

The story was that the Noctilux and S'lux 75 were made in Canada instead of Germany due to the use of the highly poisonous Beryllium in one of the optical elements. The use of Beryllium was forbidden in Germany, while it was allowed in Canada.

 

Just another angle of view. Don't take it too seriously.

 

The story of poisonous, is quite correct: quite.

The issue's regarding radioactivity indeed.

It's been confirmed many times, and it's quite easy to make a self-made test as described here:

OBIETTIVI* RADIOATTIVI

 

(sorry it's in italian, but the pictures say all).

 

I found a table too, with a medium range measured for some lenses here:

 

'+'

 

In english they're called Hot Lenses.

[Mauribix]

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the value of 178 is the normal background (indicates a normal activity), here is the list of some lenses, the higher is the value, the higher is the radioactivity:

 

Angenieux AF 28-70/2,6 : 189

 

Canon RF 50/0,95 : 202 (front) 225 (rear)

 

Canon FD 50/1,2 L : 209 (front) 228 (rear)

 

Canon FD 50/1,8 BL : 196

 

Canon FD 50/1,8 new : 191

 

Canon FD 50/3,5 macro : 180

 

Canon FD 17/4 : 178

 

Canon FD 20-35/3,5 L : 235 (front) 205 (rear)

 

Canon FD 35-70/2,8-3,5 : 178

 

Canon FD 35/2,8 bellows micro : 190

 

Canon FD 24/1,4 L : 220 (front) 215 (rear)

 

Canon FD 85/1,2 L : 233

 

Canon FD 200/1,8 L : 275

 

Nikkor AiS 15/3,5 : 187

 

Nikkor AF 16/2,8 D : 185

 

Nikkor AFS 17-35/2,8 ED : 214 (rear)

 

Nikkor AiS 20/2,8 : 194

 

Nikkor-O 2,1cm f/4 : 199

 

Nikkor AF 24-120/3,5-5,6 D : 214

 

Nikkor Ai 25-50/4 : 231

 

Nikkor AF 28/1,4 D : 225 (front) 215 (rear)

 

Nikkor Ai 28/2 : 211

 

Nikkor 28/2,8 (Nikon 28Ti) : 221

 

Nikkor AiS 28/2,8 : 178

 

Nikkor F 28/3,5 : 178

 

Nikkor PC 28/3,5 : 190

 

Nikkor F 35/2 : 229

 

Nikkor AiS 35/1,4 : 198 (front) 210 (rear)

 

Nikkor F 43-86/3,5 : 192

 

Nikkor F GN 45/2,8 : 178

 

Nikkor Ai 50/2 : 178

 

Nikkor AiS 50/1,8 : 178

 

Nikkor F 50/1,4 S : 178

 

Nikkor F 50/1,4 SC : 192 (front) 200 (rear)

 

Nikkor AF 50/1,4 : 191 (rear) 178 (front)

 

Nikkor F Micro 55/3,5 : 178

 

Nikkor Ai MIcro 55/3,5 : 191

 

Nikkor AiS Micro 55/2,8 : 178

 

Nikkor Ultra-Micro 55/2 : 212 (front) 204 (rear)

 

Nikkor AiS NOCT 58/1,2 : 211 (front) 183 (rear)

 

Nikkor AF Micro 60/2,8 : 199

 

Nikkor AF 85/1,8 : 178

 

Nikkor AiS 85/1,4 : 221

 

Nikkor AiS 105/1,8 : 211

 

Nikkor Ai 105/4 micro: 197

 

Nikkor AiS 180/2,8 ED : 250

 

Nikkor AF 80-200/2,8 D : 258

 

Nikkor AF VR 80-400/4,5-5,6 ED : 268

 

Nikkor F 200/4 : 246 (front) 194 (rear)

 

Nikkor AiS Micro 200/4 : 288

 

Nikkor Medical 200/5,6 : 245

 

Nikkor lenti addizionali Medical 200/5,6 : 224

 

Nikkor AF 300/2,8 ED : 322

 

Nikkor Reflex 500/8 new : 216

 

Nikon TC-301 (moltiplicatore 2x) : 218

 

Leica Elmarit-R 19/2,8 1° tipo: 181

 

Leica Elmarit-M 21/2,8 : 178

 

Leica Elmarit-M 28/2,8 1° tipo (9 lenti 1964) : 247

 

Leica Summicron-M 35/2 3^ serie (7 lenti) Germany : 185 (front) 199 (rear)

 

Leica Summilux-M 35/1,4 Aspherical 1° tipo : 202 (front) 197 (rear)

 

Leica Elmarit-R 35/2,8 2° tipo : 187

 

Leica Macro-Elmarit-R 60/2,8 : 189

 

Leica Noctilux-M 50/1,0 : 200

 

Leica Summicron-M 50/2 attuale : 189

 

Leica Elmar-M 50/2,8 new : 187

 

Leica Elmar 39x1 50/2,8 1960 : 181

 

Leica Elmar 39x1 50/3,5 1950 : 193

 

Leica Summilux-M 75/1,4 : 183

 

Leica Elmarit-M 90/2,8 new : 185

 

Leica Apo-Macro-Elmarit-R 100/2,8 : 179

 

Leica Tele-Elmar-M 135/4 : 201

 

Leica Apo-Telyt-R 180/3,4 : 190 (front) 181 (rear)

 

Leica Focotar 50/4,5 : 188

 

Leica Colorplan Germany 90/2,5 (24x36 proiettore CA2500) : 238

 

Leica Elmaron 150/2,8 (6x6 proiettore Prado 66) : 222

 

Rollei Heidosmat 150/2,8 (6x6 proiettore P11) : 228

 

Pentax SMC KM 28/3,5 : 193

 

Pentax SMC KM 35/2 : 197

 

Pentax SMC KM 40-80/2,8-4 : 178

 

Pentax SMC KM 100/2,8 : 184

 

Pentax SMC KM 200/4 : 227

 

Pentax SMC KM 50/1,7 : 213 (front) 217 (rear)

 

Pentax SMC 645 A 35/3,5 : 178

 

Pentax SMC 645 FA 45-85/4,5 : 180

 

Pentax SMC 645 75/2,8 LS : 181 (front) 224 (rear)

 

Pentax SMC 645 FA 120/4 : 181 (front) 178 (rear)

 

Fujinon SF 180/5,6 (4x5”) : 192 (front) 179 (rear)

 

Nikkor SW 75/4,5 (4x5“) : 232

 

Rodenstock Apo-Ronar 240/9 (4x5“) : 199

 

Rodenstock Sironar-N 150/5,6 (4x5“) : 188

 

Schneider Angulon 90/6,8 (4x5“) : 178

 

Nikkor EL 50/2,8 new : 215

 

Rodenstock Rodagon 50/2,8 : 226

 

Rodenstock Rodagon 80/4 : 220

 

Pentax Neonon 80/5,6 : 220

 

Schneider Componon-S 100/5,6 : 194

 

Rodenstock Rodagon 150/5,6 :

 

Voigtlander-Cosina 12/5,6 : 202

 

Voigtlander Color-Skopar 50/2,8 1959 : 184

 

Zeiss Contax 18/4 Germany : 182

 

Zeiss Contax 28/2 Germany : 179

 

Zeiss Contax 35-70/3,4 : 185

 

Zeiss Contax 45/2,8 : 182

 

Zeiss Contax 50/1,4 : 193 (front) 214 (rear)

 

Zeiss Contax S-60/2,8 Germany : 178

 

Zeiss Contax 85/1,4 Germany : 187 (front) 178 (rear)

 

Zeiss Contax 100/3,5 : 193

 

Zeiss Contarex 21/4,5 : 183

 

Zeiss Contarex 25/2,8 : 178

 

Zeiss Contarex 35/2 : 200

 

Zeiss Contarex 50/2 : 186 (front) 178 (rear)

 

Zeiss Contarex 50/2,8 : 202 (front) 201 (rear)

 

Zeiss Contarex 85/2 cromo 1959 : 186 (front) 197 (rear)

 

Zeiss Contarex 135/2,8 : 178

 

Zeiss Hasselblad 38/4,5 : 236

 

Zeiss Hasselblad 50/4 FLE : 194

 

Zeiss Hasselblad Planar 80/2,8 C cromo T* : 193

 

Zeiss Hasselblad Makro 120/4 : 178

 

Zeiss Hasselblad 150/4 cromo 1962 mat. 3.469.801 : 474 (front) 638 (rear)

 

Zeiss Icarex 50/2,8 : 178

 

Zeiss Rolleiflex 75/3,5 : 195

 

Zeiss Rollei 40/3,5 : 181

 

Zeiss S-Planar 120/5,6 : 208

 

Kiev Volna-9 50/2,8 :182

 

Kiev Industar-L-3 50/2,8 : 178

 

Zenith Zenitar 16/2,8 : 178

 

Zenith Helios-40-2 85/1,5 : 219

 

Zenith MTO 1100/10,5 : 281

 

Horizon 202 28/2,8 : 184

 

Nuarc process lens 8 1/4” (210mm) f/8 : 204 (front) 178 (rear)

 

 

And the winner is.... Zeiss Hasselblad?

[jaapv]

What units?

I suppose these are microrem.

The ICRP- norm is 50.000 Microrem/year, so we may assume the safety of these lenses.

[marknorton]

Mark,

 

They don't really need to fix the 35 Summilux, they just need to make the existing one properly. As my 35 APSH Summilux proves, they can make one which neither back-focuses nor aperture shifts to any significant degree. I am seriously wondering if I should leave it with them for coding, when I visit Solms next month. I am concerned that the new bayonet will not be as accurate as the existing one, resulting in back-focus but what I am really worried about is that they will take mine apart to see why it does not aperture shift ;-}}

 

Wilson

 

Seems to me this lens has a very small tolerance margin so that it's a matter of chance whether you get a good or a bad one.

 

Are you doing the factory tour? I've never managed to synchronise being in the area when there's a tour on and a visit to Solms is otherwise hardly on a par with visiting Porsche - which I am doing next month. Any hopes that the "museum" will hold your attention for more than 5 minutes are likely to be dashed and the factory shop mainly confirms itself as the highest priced Leica outlet in the world.

[Mauribix]

@Jaap: the unit is millirem/year

 

All of these lenses are practically safe, only the mentioned Zeiss-Hasselblad seems to have a 3,5 times higher value...

[Jamie Roberts]

(snipped)struggling with.... trying to keep reds and purples under control in exposure....

 

Huh? Why do you need to be so chromatically aware?! LOL!! Is this an IR thing? I'm serious--I thought I heard everything about the M8, but I've never heard this one before.

[marknorton]

Heard the new Noctilux that will be unveiled at Photokina will be a "limited" edition one. For those who want one, better start saving NOW!

 

And your source is? Why would Leica go to the expense of designing and tooling up to make a new Noctilux and then restrict its sales. OTOH, as you point out, the edition is more likely to be limited by those willing to pay through the nose for one...

[wlaidlaw]

Should I be wearing lead underpants when I use my 135 Tele-elmar (201 micro-rads)?

 

I notice that the pre-war Thambar and the type II (hex diaphragm) 50mm Summitar are not among the tested lenses. I had been told that these were sufficiently radio-active with thorium glass, that they would set off the anti-smuggling sensors at US airports but this may well be an urban legend. Given the lack of a sense of humour at these locations, I have avoided carrying my 1953 vintage Summitar to the US.

 

Wilson

[Jamie Roberts]

(snipped) I am seriously wondering if I should leave it with them for coding, when I visit Solms next month. I am concerned that the new bayonet will not be as accurate as the existing one, resulting in back-focus but what I am really worried about is that they will take mine apart to see why it does not aperture shift ;-}}

 

Wilson

 

Wilson, I have a 35 lux (chrome) that's perfect too (and my Nocti isn't all that bad either; there is no focus shift below f2 or above f3 and it's trivial, not major).

 

It doesn't need coding, IMO; I would never let them change the lens in any way (except for a CLA).

[jaapv]

@Jaap: the unit is millirem/year

 

All of these lenses are practically safe, only the mentioned Zeiss-Hasselblad seems to have a 3,5 times higher value...

 

Just don't carry it constantly in a critical place......

[wlaidlaw]

Seems to me this lens has a very small tolerance margin so that it's a matter of chance whether you get a good or a bad one.

 

Are you doing the factory tour? I've never managed to synchronise being in the area when there's a tour on and a visit to Solms is otherwise hardly on a par with visiting Porsche - which I am doing next month. Any hopes that the "museum" will hold your attention for more than 5 minutes are likely to be dashed and the factory shop mainly confirms itself as the highest priced Leica outlet in the world.

 

Mark,

 

Yes I am doing the factory tour and taking Stefan to lunch. I am postponing my visit to Porsche until I get my 997T later this year, when I hope the new museum will be finally be open. Are you just visiting or collecting ;-}}

 

Wilson

[Mauribix]

Should I be wearing lead underpants when I use my 135 Tele-elmar (201 micro-rads)?

 

I notice that the pre-war Thambar and the type II (hex diaphragm) 50mm Summitar are not among the tested lenses. I had been told that these were sufficiently radio-active with thorium glass, that they would set off the anti-smuggling sensors at US airports but this may well be an urban legend. Given the lack of a sense of humour at these locations, I have avoided carrying my 1953 vintage Summitar to the US.

 

Wilson

 

It seems that the continuous use of these lenses may produce strange alterations...

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[KM-25]

totally disagree. The noctilux can produce incredible pictures like few other lenses. Still life, portrait, landcsape, nightime, pretty much anything ...and its not soley because of F1. You just don't know how to use it properly or in an inspired creative way.

 

I have yet to see any big name shooters or any photographers for that matter use this lens in a way that makes me want to get one.

 

If someone wants to loan me one for a month, I'll see if I can shoot an entire ad campaign with it and pull that special look out of it with a degree of consistency. Otherwise, besides the occasional cliche of "Bokeh test on model" all I see are the same old door knobs, beer bottles and other static still lifes that really don't do much for me.

[jaapv]

There was this guy in LFI (same issue that carried the Doug Herr article) He specialized in the Noctilux and his work was pretty good.

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[wlaidlaw]

Wilson, I have a 35 lux (chrome) that's perfect too (and my Nocti isn't all that bad either; there is no focus shift below f2 or above f3 and it's trivial, not major).

 

It doesn't need coding, IMO; I would never let them change the lens in any way (except for a CLA).

 

Jamie,

 

I have found coding does make a small but noticeable difference (I am using one of Tim's Coders to hand code) on the 35 for pale skies/cyan corners. I also like to see the focal length on the EXIF's. This is a "tight" lens to mount (maybe why it is a good one) and wipes the hand coding off at regular intervals. I just don't know whether to leave it or not. I might print out the test charts, give them to Stefan and say, if it is not at least as good as that after coding, don't send it back to me.

 

Wilson