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Sean Reid's review of a pre-production upgraded M8


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Guest jimmy pro

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I find it much less noticeable and so did my two "listeners". The duration is still there, of course, and I suppose that's what your friends object to.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

 

They guys I talked to both shoot professionally in noise-sensitive places. Courtrooms, theaters, and the occasional church. They all have Leica M7's. They all have Leica M8's. They all said on a scale of 0-10 where 0 is the M7 and 10 is the M8, the "upgraded" M8 is an 8 1/2. A little quieter but nothing even close to an M7. These guys were really pinning hopes on the upgrade because they're tired of using their M7's and scanning, but none of them will get the upgrade. Maybe at a wedding ceremony or taking pix of grandbabies while there sleeping the upgrade is significantly quieter for it to be worthwhile, but if these guys aren't impressed with the upgrade then it isn't that much of an improvement. See, for them, just having there subjects a little less pissed-off doesn't cut water.

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They guys I talked to both shoot professionally in noise-sensitive places. Courtrooms, theaters, and the occasional church. They all have Leica M7's. They all have Leica M8's. They all said on a scale of 0-10 where 0 is the M7 and 10 is the M8, the "upgraded" M8 is an 8 1/2. .

 

Where have they heard these new upgraded shutters?

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Where have they heard these new upgraded shutters?

 

Hi Andy,

 

I was wondering the same thing. PMA is kind of a noisy place to do a comparison like that and, again, it may be the shutter noise duration that put them off. I'm waiting for a test M7 to get here so that I can do a side by side with my ears and the ears of my two listeners.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

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Well both guys were at PMA and both were at Leica in Allendale earlier this week. I'll have to ask them which place they handled the upgraded M8's. If it was PMA I wonder how they found anyplace quiet enough to compare, unless Leica had a soundproof booth set up for it :p

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Hi Andy,

 

I was wondering the same thing. PMA is kind of a noisy place to do a comparison like that and, again, it may be the shutter noise duration that put them off. I'm waiting for a test M7 to get here so that I can do a side by side with my ears and the ears of my two listeners.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

 

That'll be an interesting comparo. You may be right, in fact you're probably right about the duration, if by that you mean the whirrrrrr of the recocking motor. But does it really matter what the nature of the noise is, as long as it's enough to get unwanted attention? Even the M7 makes some noise, but just a soft "cluck". If the same M7 sound was followed by a whirrrrr then it'd be noisy enough to turn heads in a quiet place. That's why the motor drive, even the latest one, was always so unpopular and bashed as being contrary to the Leica's image of whisper-quiet. Leica can put in any new shutter they want, but even if it's 100% silent, that damn after motor puts up a racket that people notice. Whether its a little quieter or not is mute, if people notice it the jig is up.

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Because there's no advance lever, so it has to be electrically readied for the next shot. I assume there's no room in the body shell for a 'normal' advance mechanism.

 

I know that :)

 

Perhaps I need to look at Mark Norton's cut up M8 again to see how much space is left inside.

 

Shame though.

 

Maybe they could have made the M8 more like an M5... (runs for cover)

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That'll be an interesting comparo. You may be right, in fact you're probably right about the duration, if by that you mean the whirrrrrr of the recocking motor. But does it really matter what the nature of the noise is, as long as it's enough to get unwanted attention? Even the M7 makes some noise, but just a soft "cluck". If the same M7 sound was followed by a whirrrrr then it'd be noisy enough to turn heads in a quiet place. That's why the motor drive, even the latest one, was always so unpopular and bashed as being contrary to the Leica's image of whisper-quiet. Leica can put in any new shutter they want, but even if it's 100% silent, that damn after motor puts up a racket that people notice. Whether its a little quieter or not is mute, if people notice it the jig is up.

 

Well, sort of. Even the current shutter/cocking sound is at the right pitch to sometimes blend in with normal conversation etc. But, as someone who does photograph at those quiet wedding ceremonies, I can say that I'd much rather the less intrusive sound of the new shutter than that of the current one. Silent is great but less noise is, for me, better than more noise.

 

My wife, a professional photographer with young ears <G>, ballparks the new M8 sound as being about half as loud as that of the current M8 when both are heard from about six feet away (standing in front of the camera). This, of course, is in a room that is, otherwise, essentially silent.

 

Otherwise, of course, the option for Leica would be to offer an *optional* manual shutter cocking lever, a la Epson R-D1.

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I know that :)

 

Perhaps I need to look at Mark Norton's cut up M8 again to see how much space is left inside.

 

Shame though.

 

Maybe they could have made the M8 more like an M5... (runs for cover)

 

I'll bet there's room but I don't know for sure and, yes, Mark might know.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

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That's a fair question, for sure. I think if one is happy with the current M8's shutter sound and feel then the money might be better spent on other things.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

Well it is not just the noise but the feel of the button and the roughness from the button not the shutter. I live in San Francisco and a man nearby who posts on the forum fixed my button release for me as a favor and it is like night and day between the before and after. I watched him do it and it took about an hour and this is something Leica could do too and not for all that money. The ixed button release is like my old M6.

Dan

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Guest jimmy pro
But, as someone who does photograph at those quiet wedding ceremonies, I can say that I'd much rather the less intrusive sound of the new shutter than that of the current one. Silent is great but less noise is, for me, better than more noise.

 

At weddings someone is always sniffing or coughing or clearing there throat so it's not as if a ceremony is ever dead silence. I covered a funeral once for a paper, there was enough wailing and crying to drown out a howitzer. Most of the weddings I've been to in the last twenty years, and I'm talking Catholic, the pro shot during the procession and even the ceremony itself, at moments where the priest paused, with a clacking SLR, and nobody got all bent out of shape. Courtrooms are different, where if the judge hears the camera he can toss the photographer out on his ear. There "less noise" is still liable to get you the boot. Same with theater, unless you have a pass. I've seen guys with DSLR's with passes shooting away in the theater. Honestly in most situations the whole noise thing is overblown. People aren't idiots, they can see a guy's got a camera, and unless the thing sounds like a kettle drum there not going to care that much. I think the photographer, because he's right there with the camera up to his head, is the one most sensitive to the sound. So he whoever figures he'll shoot better if the camera sounds quieter to himself, then maybe he needs to spend the $1800. Someone else is either going to be ok with the M8 the way it is, or else is going to take notice of it even if its half as loud.

 

Otherwise, of course, the option for Leica would be to offer an *optional* manual shutter cocking lever, a la Epson R-D1.

 

Nah that's crap. All they have to do is delay the recocking until either you take your finger off the trigger or else push a seperate button, after you've had a chance to shove the camera under your jacket or guard it with your body, something to muffle the whirrrrr.

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..............The obtrusively loud element is the motorised cocking that follows immediately after the shutter release. And, as far as I've been able to discover, the shutter cock remains exactly the same in the new version of the M8.................

In an earlier post I gave links (which have now expired) to sound files where I had separated out the shutter and the recocking sounds. There were also files where the duration of both sounds had been stretched without changing their pitch so you could better judge the improvement. In all cases both the shutter and recocking were quieter.

 

I'd expect the recocking to be quieter with the reduced speed shutter since it probably needs less torque from the motor.

 

Bob.

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Guest jimmy pro

And another thing folks are ignoring (or maybe don't know). A new shutter in a Canon 1DS costs <$300, and that's tied in with the mirror mechanism so there's more work involved. $1800 for a new shutter and LCD glass is effin robbery, pure and simple. It's an effin pre-assembled mass-produced Japanese shutter, not some complicated handmade German clockwork. Ya there's the warranty. But unless yours is up, that's a waste.

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That's an interesting question. If I get time, I'll do some tripod test exposures at long shutter speeds, to see if there is a difference.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

 

Thanks Sean,

 

I'm on the fence a little, although leaning towards the upgrade. If there is an image difference, though, I would definitely do it.

 

Thanks again,

 

steve

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