bayerische Posted February 7, 2008 Share #21 Posted February 7, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hey, I can't afford a second M8. Do I get to boast that I only take one M8 with me too? It takes cohones to have only one M8 I think we are lucky! (I have only one, and only one battery) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 7, 2008 Posted February 7, 2008 Hi bayerische, Take a look here Faith And Confidence. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
morffin Posted February 7, 2008 Share #22 Posted February 7, 2008 Sounds like youve lost your passion..might want to try selling insurance. We are blessed to be able to do this for a living.....never forget how lucky we are.. just ask your friends w/ real jobs.. Taking a what the hell I can always re shoot it attitude doesnt seem to me the right way to go about it. Every shoot you go on is the most important shoot of your life. I have the messed up shoulder too from the heavy bag ( and ice hockey ) . but how much extra weight would one more camera body add to your load. I'm off to bed ....early shoot tmrw. Good luck w/ your shoot..have fun! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted February 7, 2008 Share #23 Posted February 7, 2008 Finally, someone who understands statistical probability. You are right on the money. I don't think it works like that. If you take a second camera as a backup, how does this change the probability of your primary camera suffering a mechanical failure? [i think it is true that if you use [b]both[/b] cameras equally, the chances of suffering a failure from a (non-specified) M8 becomes higher.] I'm surprised that the original poster is so blasé about the notion of a re-shoot. In my experience, having to re-shoot a job would be, at best, very embarrassing. More likely it would be either impossible or a costly logistical nightmare. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveco Posted February 7, 2008 Share #24 Posted February 7, 2008 I got my M8 only recently. When I have gone on a wildlife/nature photo trip, I have always taken two Dslr's, just in case. I really can't afford a second M8. I will probably take the M8 on future wildlife/nature shoots/trips as a landscape camera, in addition to what I normally bring. I suppose if I go on a regular vacation (with fiancee) I will bring the M8 and my Panasonic point and shoot-I believe it is similar to the D-lux. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted February 7, 2008 Share #25 Posted February 7, 2008 One breakdown on a job and people rethink............ thinking that re-shoots are ok because your one and only piece of equipment buggers up shows disrespect for the customers and arrogance of the photographer. A smart arse attitude.........grow up On holidays or for fun etc do as one pleases Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
giordano Posted February 7, 2008 Share #26 Posted February 7, 2008 No, put your Nokia in the bin, and use your Iphone! But you'll need a backup Iphone ... on a different network! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CameronDavidson Posted February 7, 2008 Share #27 Posted February 7, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) Ramifications from not having a back-up on a shoot. Scenario: camera goes down. Client asks what is going on, why don't you have a back-up? Why didn't you get the shot you were hired to get? Results: Loss of confidence from your client. Believe me, they will tell others. Shoot was ruined because you did not care enough to be professional in your ability to carry through your assignment. Client tells others in magazine/agency/design firm/corporation. You are now toast to that client. (for non-english speakers - that means - you are no longer a source for them) They tell other clients. Your career slips down a notch because you were not professional. If you are in a small town, ouch. When both of my M8's locked up last year on a major ad shoot, do you think I even blinked or let the client know? I switched to my Canons and kept on shooting. The client never even know that there was a hiccup with the gear. Because the focus was on the clients needs and getting the image. I have faith in my ability to get the shot. I do not have faith in mechanical or electrical devices. As a professional, I am responsible to my client and coming home with the shot without excuses. Every one has their own path to choose. If I am shooting for myself, no problem. For a client, my first responsibility is to them and to make sure I fulfill my assignment. I would never go on a shoot without back-up. (it does not matter what brand you shoot with - cameras fail) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bayerische Posted February 7, 2008 Share #28 Posted February 7, 2008 You are not toast to that client. (for non-english speakers - that means - you are no longer a source for them) Thanks for making that clear. I would have struggled to understand it otherwise... Ahhh, I'm actually glad that I'm not a professional photographer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
innerimager Posted February 7, 2008 Share #29 Posted February 7, 2008 As a part time pro shooter I always carried 2 DSLRs to jobs (weddings, other events). I decided last week to use my M8 for this work, as much as possible. I bought a used "backup" M8 on Ebay immediately. best....Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted February 7, 2008 Share #30 Posted February 7, 2008 My biggest issue is batteries this week in Moab the cold is just killing them and i am getting shut downs. But i am thinking after 25k images shot with my six batteries that I am at the replacement point too. I mean they can only take so much charging. Anyway if you want to see some really nice images from our workshop. I'll post some here next week when i get back , just too busy at the moment but you can look here. Heading out for a early sunrise Shots from the Moab workshop - The GetDPI Workshop Forums BTW I am getting more info this week from Leica , I have the sales reps here at the workshop and tiring to get more details on the upgrade. There actually might be some changes and they seem to be still trying to figure some of it out. So sounds like some things may not be in concrete as they said already. Have a nice day folks Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/44676-faith-and-confidence/?do=findComment&comment=476192'>More sharing options...
ndjambrose Posted February 7, 2008 Share #31 Posted February 7, 2008 I spent 25 years acting like a proper professional. Now I have an indent in my right collar bone from carrying the loaded bag. I figure the worst thing that can happen is that I have to go back and do a re-shoot. Hasn't happened yet, but if it does--it's just not a big deal. If I was going out to do brain surgery, it would be different. All I'm doing is going out to make a picture. Depends on what you're shooting, doesn't it? If it's cornflake packets or landscapes then fair enough - maybe a re-shoot is quite trivial. But some shoots are not repeatable. For instance, just try telling a bride that you've failed to capture any of her wedding because you were reckless enough to think you didn't need a back-up -- and, btw, can she please re-stage the entire affair so you can do a re-shoot. Or try telling your editor that you failed to get the once in a lifetime shot because your camera failed -- and unfortunately you had decided to travel light that day.... Or good luck when you're shooting an advertising campaign for a major brand and your equipment fails, and you suggest to the AD that they just re-shoot it another day because you'd decided not to bring a back-up. They'll certainly reshoot it, but not with you, and they'll make sure that you eat the entire cost. Plus you probably won't ever get work again. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted February 7, 2008 Share #32 Posted February 7, 2008 If you don't have a backup as a Pro with any camera system than your a freaking idiot and deserve anything bad that can happen in the business . Bottom line your irresponsible and should not be in the business to start. And i mean that with all my strength in words. Most Pros work there butts off to cover there ass in all situations. If your not doing that than I don't consider you a Pro. has nothing to do with any camera system period . They ALL fail Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jklotz Posted February 7, 2008 Share #33 Posted February 7, 2008 I tend to shoot a lot of editorial. Even if the shoot could be recreated, the deadlines of the looming "book has to be to the press by ....." would mean there's not a cold day in hell that I'd show up to a shoot with one camera. Taking risks in the stock market is one thing, but risking delivery with your livelihood is just plain stupid..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
35mmSummicron Posted February 7, 2008 Share #34 Posted February 7, 2008 While I agree with everyone that for big professional shoots, its important to have backup solutions; be it camera bodies, extra strobe heads, spare laptops, back up HD's etc. (especially in this day and age where it is MUCH easier to be "equipment-failure-proof".) I would like to point out that one can get insurance coverage for production issues. This might not help the news/event/wedding photographer with any "reshoots" but it will help when the client decides to sue your business. "Shit happens" Art Directors might not like that added stress, but most will certainly understand it when it does, and having production insurance will cover the professional photographer from having to directly absorb the costs of say a 6-figure production budget shooting a nation wide advertising campaign. /a Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted February 7, 2008 Share #35 Posted February 7, 2008 I don't think it works like that. If you take a second camera as a backup, how does this change the probability of your primary camera suffering a mechanical failure? I thought that was a tongue-in-cheek remark … If the chances for a single M8 to fail under certain conditions are p, then the chances that two similar cameras would both fail are p x p. If you believe you face a risk of 1.0 percent that your primary M8 might fail, just bring along your backup M8 to reduce the risk of being without a working camera to 0.01 percent (or 0.0001 percent with a third camera and so on). Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndjambrose Posted February 7, 2008 Share #36 Posted February 7, 2008 While I agree with everyone that for big professional shoots, its important to have backup solutions; be it camera bodies, extra strobe heads, spare laptops, back up HD's etc. (especially in this day and age where it is MUCH easier to be "equipment-failure-proof".) I would like to point out that one can get insurance coverage for production issues. This might not help the news/event/wedding photographer with any "reshoots" but it will help when the client decides to sue your business. "Shit happens" Art Directors might not like that added stress, but most will certainly understand it when it does, and having production insurance will cover the professional photographer from having to directly absorb the costs of say a 6-figure production budget shooting a nation wide advertising campaign. /a It's quite hard getting insurance against negligence - in fact most policies specifically exclude it. And undertaking a non-repeatable commercial photo shoot without an appropriate back-up strategy is entirely negligent. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchell Posted February 7, 2008 Share #37 Posted February 7, 2008 "...try selling insurance." "...disrespect...arrogance...A smart arse attitude.........grow up" "....your a freaking idiot and deserve anything bad... your irresponsible and should not be in the business" " ...just plain stupid...." Boy reading these I get the impression Brent is a pretty bad guy, and at least a lousy photographer who can't make a living. Somehow over the years on the forum I get a different impression. Nothing he has said would lead me to believe he wouldn't take a backup to a wedding shoot, etc. I think it might be a better idea to stop and think about what someone is suggesting before shooting from the hip to trash someone. I would suggest looking at his website, and seeing if you might want to retract the garbage said about him. Best, Mitchell Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KM-25 Posted February 7, 2008 Share #38 Posted February 7, 2008 Thanks for making that clear. I would have struggled to understand it otherwise... Ahhh, I'm actually glad that I'm not a professional photographer. There is give and take in every line of work. I would never trade mine. I get to do things, go places and meet people that most will never see behind their desk. The only thing that might be better than coming away from a shoot without any problems is overcoming an issue with no sweat and looking like a rock star to your client. Seeing a professional adapting to and taking charge of a tricky situation gives the client the further satisfaction in knowing exactly why they hired you. And as much as I love the M8, if I were only able to take just one camera to a job for some odd reason, the M8 would be the last one I would pic for that type of use. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
35mmSummicron Posted February 7, 2008 Share #39 Posted February 7, 2008 It's quite hard getting insurance against negligence - in fact most policies specifically exclude it. And undertaking a non-repeatable commercial photo shoot without an appropriate back-up strategy is entirely negligent. How does obtaining Production Insurance for a shoot PRIOR to shooting which COVERS equipment failure DURING production constitute negligence? I'm not suggesting this is the absolute solution to all things, but I am merely suggesting those who do not sleep at night because of the questionable reliability of their equipment--be it cameras, or others, might want to look into this. If you are not familiar with what Production Insurance is, then perhaps you should do some research. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndjambrose Posted February 7, 2008 Share #40 Posted February 7, 2008 How does obtaining Production Insurance for a shoot PRIOR to shooting which COVERS equipment failure DURING production constitute negligence? I'm not suggesting this is the absolute solution to all things, but I am merely suggesting those who do not sleep at night because of the questionable reliability of their equipment--be it cameras, or others, might want to look into this. If you are not familiar with what Production Insurance is, then perhaps you should do some research. I'm very familiar with it - have taken out this type of insurance a few times. But one of the principal points in most clauses - certainly in policies I've seen - is that the photographer is required to take 'reasonable measures' to provide continuity of service . The policy is intended to cover everything else, particularly those things that could not be anticipated. With respect, if you're happily relying on your insurance to protect you for going to a shoot without back-up equipment then you may want to read your policy more carefully. Most insurers would conclude that having at least one back-up camera was a reasonable measure. But, anyway - this is going off-topic a little. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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