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Update from PMA


Guest guy_mancuso

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Thank you Guy for your work! much appreciated herre!

And you're convincing me to make the upgrade too.

I still have a question to pone to Leica's: is there a new future for chrome lenses?

i know that's not properly concerning M8, but since they still have chrome cameras, i'm feeling sick not to see new chrome lenses...

 

Best

 

Maurizio

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Guest guy_mancuso

Some of the questions asked on more of the technical stuff has to be answered by Solms so that hopefully will come. No talk of lenses at this time but Photokinia is the show to watch. It WILL be very large for Leica and I expect a lot of announcements

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Guy,

 

Thanks for taking the time to write the update. It will be interesting to see what other improvements Leica will offer, but I'm surprised there's still no high-level repair or modification available in New Jersey.

 

Larry

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Some of the questions asked on more of the technical stuff has to be answered by Solms so that hopefully will come. No talk of lenses at this time but Photokinia is the show to watch. It WILL be very large for Leica and I expect a lot of announcements

 

Yep, i think new lenses' gonna arrive here....:D :D :D

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It's kind of interesting that the idea of having the M8 be upgradable floated around the forum in the past, people said it'd be great, but will never happen. Now it's happened but people don't seem to think it's so great.

 

I love the M8, but I'm not sure I think the body is optimum. I'd like to see a more ergonomically shaped body like the R9, but M sized of course.

 

Original cost, plus upgrades is starting to seem very expensive.

 

I'd love to know when the M9 was coming, but it sounds like the upgrades will push it well back.

 

I give credit to Leica for being innovative with the upgrade strategy. But I think I might rather get an M9 with all improvements sooner than now seems probable.

 

Best,

 

Mitchell

 

Mitchell

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Guest guy_mancuso

BTW price for the first upgrade is 1200 Euros period. So whatever the conversion rate for the US at time of CC charge than whatever your CC company charges at that time. It's 1200

Euro's for EVERYONE and it is a pick up from your door and delivered to your door , no drop off to any service center to have it done.

 

 

Btw if you buy a used M8 on e-bay let's say you send it in for a upgrade you get a 2 year warranty.

 

 

Another note Leica has come out with a new skin that you can actually buy through customer service it is a Vulcanite skin. Now this is seperate from the upgrade and any camera can be sent in to have this done.

 

All upgrades will come back with a normal skin and this is a seperate line item. Not sure if you can have it done though at upgrade time and will check into that but this is a repair dept. item so I kind of doubt it. The upgrades are coming from the production line which is seperate from repair. So folks that have replaced there skin on there own maybe wise to remove it before upgrade ,Leica will put a normal skin on it after upgrading it

 

Let me go over another issue if you want to buy a M8 with a upgrade than this strictly is a dealer option. Basically they send several of there bodies to Leica get the upgrade and sell them but this is a dealer option if they chose to do that

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Thanks for your perspective and efforts to explain Leica’s upgrade concept. I had already decided to purchase the upgrade/update/option-1 or whatever the vernacular, prior to your report. I suspect that those undecided votes may now see the benefits. I really took notice to “smoother to release the shutter”. Leica was quite clever by not incorporating the upgrades in the newer M8’s so that recent purchasers couldn’t reasonably expect a cost concession for the update(s). Still, it’s hard not to rationalize that my 2-month old M8 @ 5400-hundred dollars may end up costing me 7200-hundred on 1 March (my option of course).

Regards,

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Guest guy_mancuso

Yes Jack and i immediately thought the actually release was less chunky feeling. Just nice pressure going from stage 1 to release without that indent feeling. Hard to describe but just felt better and the sound or should I say the less sound was impressive , still has the whirl from the motor but it is dampened very nicely. I shoot lot's of corporate events with speakers and let's face it with a M8 i am pretty close with a 90 lens and the least amount of noise from me the better and this will help a lot. More stealth if that is a real word than yes it is and for the street not sure anyone would hear it.

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Guy,

Many thanks for your hard work and detailed report which should appease many. I feel comfortable enough with your report to opt for the upgrade a little later i.e. when my current warranty runs out.

 

Many thanks again,

Arif

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Thanks for your perspective and efforts to explain Leica’s upgrade concept. I had already decided to purchase the upgrade/update/option-1 or whatever the vernacular, prior to your report. I suspect that those undecided votes may now see the benefits. I really took notice to “smoother to release the shutter”. Leica was quite clever by not incorporating the upgrades in the newer M8’s so that recent purchasers couldn’t reasonably expect a cost concession for the update(s). Still, it’s hard not to rationalize that my 2-month old M8 @ 5400-hundred dollars may end up costing me 7200-hundred on 1 March (my option of course).

Regards,

 

Well,

 

if you think you need the upgrade - I guess especially the quieter shutter - then you should go for it. I would not hesitate a minute to do so.

 

Personally I am not looking for this shutter and I do not care for the Saphire glass either, so why have this upgrade.

 

I personally would maybe go for a FF upgrade, depending on what the FF upgraded M8 would cost in total compared to a FF Mxyz which I would buy new.

 

But for me wanting to convert to FF totally and not have any Crop cameras left finally, the upgrade option for FF M is a great offer. Because I am sure I will no longer use my crop M after I have a FF one. And since I need 2 digital FF Ms my M8 might go finally this path, as soon as it is available :)

 

I am hoping for Finder upgrades of course as well. So I could then have one of my digital Ms optimized for Telephoto (larger magnification) and one for Wide (less magnification) of course!

 

Smart stuff :D

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It's tough to know whether the change in the shutter release feel is part of the upgrade or just the way it is set on current production. As we've previously covered, you can back off the adjustment screws to change the feel, though only Carsten (and I) have done it to my knowledge. Leica may have gone further and revised the switch...

 

If they put a standard skin back on, I wonder if they will also remove the duct tape and return black/grey Leica dots to red? They might even reapply the safety compliance labels on the base plate...

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Guest guy_mancuso
Guy,

 

Thanks for taking the time to write the update. It will be interesting to see what other improvements Leica will offer, but I'm surprised there's still no high-level repair or modification available in New Jersey.

 

Larry

 

There maybe some changes there. The sad news is Robert Fisk is leaving Leica soon and that makes me pretty sad. He has done a great job for me and for many folks here as well and when i needed help with users issues he always came through to help them. I know he is well loved by the folks at Leica also. But he wants a change in his career and certainly we all can respect that. He sent me a very nice note the other day thanking me and it was a very nice gesture on his part.

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Guest guy_mancuso
It's tough to know whether the change in the shutter release feel is part of the upgrade or just the way it is set on current production. As we've previously covered, you can back off the adjustment screws to change the feel, though only Carsten (and I) have done it to my knowledge. Leica may have gone further and revised the switch...

 

If they put a standard skin back on, I wonder if they will also remove the duct tape and return black/grey Leica dots to red? They might even reapply the safety compliance labels on the base plate...

 

Mark great comment and without some type of measuring device it is hard to say about the feel and it maybe this body too. But I have a feeling the switch has been updated as well to match the shutter. That info would have to come from Solms.

 

But from a shooters POV we both said the same thing, it just feels better.

 

Mark I think they will put the standard skin on but not sure about the other parts. Maybe putting a note in your box when they pick up to retain your color dots. I think theremaybe a little leeway there and not as cut and dry as it sounds if you know what i mean. But they can't guarntee saving the skin you put on yours so they will

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The sad news is Robert Fisk is leaving Leica soon and that makes me pretty sad.

 

Perhaps 15+ months of M8 induced stress was getting to him...

 

I have to give it to Leica UK, they certainly don't let any stress get to them. I'm sure I can hear them hiding under their desks whenever I call up...

 

Finally, after 6 months, I've been able to buy a replacement WATE hood after I crunched it. Leica UK's response up to now? "They're not in production yet..."

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Let me go over another issue if you want to buy a M8 with a upgrade than this strictly is a dealer option. Basically they send several of there bodies to Leica get the upgrade and sell them but this is a dealer option if they chose to do that Guy I think this strategy can be improved to the benefit of everyone. Lets look at the pricing strategy in the USA....start at $4795, then $4995 then $5495 . I would assume that Leica will try to keep pricing net of VAT pretty much even worldwide to minimize a grey market undermining local dealers. A fair assumption would be that the M8 (base model) will be at $6000 plus in the USA this year. Since it comes with a 2 year warranty , the cost of the upgrade to a new M8 would be $1800 for the shutter and the screen. That would be $7800 for a new M8.2 . Building an M8 then sending it back to tear it down again? IMHO a much better alternative would be to offer the M8.2 at say $6500 and discontinue the original version. You could buy the original M8 at $5495 until stock is exhausted and it would be upgradable . Prices in the used market would stablize probably around $3500 . I have also in the past recommended that Leica reinstitute the old "signiture service" which was a CLA and a extended warranty ..if this could be done without the shutter and screen for say $995 then you could buy a used M8 and have a service done . Bottom line appears to be a lot of "non value added" costs in the strategy ..if you follow the BMW example ..they do not build upgradable models ..they offer configuration options on a single platform. Test the logic by looking at the typical stakeholders(Customers (1) limited budget...wants an M8 but has to sell his car to afford one (2) typical M8 user..can afford it but doesn t want to face a never ending series of trade ins ..likes the long life cycle typical of M series cameras (3) damn the cost I want the best (4) working pro ....I can write it off on my taxes but this tool must be reliable ; Dealers ...I need something that sells and generates revenue( not upgrades?) , I need to be able to take trades to push new equipment and I would like to make something on my used equipment and Leica ...I want to have service offerings that generate revenue while I develop the new generation. I need a stronger value proposition(upgradable M8) to justify higher prices . Finally I need a way to incorporate fixes to problems that are causing warranty costs. ) Just my 2 cents not a complaint ...this is an important element in Leicas future and I hope they are listening.

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Btw if you buy a used M8 on e-bay let's say you send it in for a upgrade you get a 2 year warranty.

Excellent news Guy. I assumed this would be the case based on the way Leica honors warranties in general, and factored that into my decision to pick up a used M8 on ebay on Friday. Glad to have it confirmed! best...Peter

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Still, it’s hard not to rationalize that my 2-month old M8 @ 5400-hundred dollars may end up costing me 7200-hundred on 1 March (my option of course).

Regards,

 

However, you knew exactly what you were buying for $5,400 2 months ago & went with it. Not like early adopters that never imagined they wouldn't be told we'd be buying filters and negotiating point source reflections off street lights at night and related magenta wrangling.

 

OTOH, "c'est la vie, et la vie, seulment", the Leica is not a throw away camera, and adding a warranty & an upgrade once and a while is probably as good as it gets, and better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick. Also a good way for Leica to keep a bunch of used M8 floating around the market. Now they've figured out how to generate revenues from used cameras, they're concentrate on how they can generate revenues from all the used lens trading :)

 

 

 

r

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Guy, so many thanks, that's a hugely useful clarification. I'm not sure where it leaves me except that I'm really excited now!

 

I wonder... any discount if you get more than one upgrade simultaneously? (after all, it's less labour, less shipping and a minimum of two years' less warranty...)

 

Still saving my pennies! :D

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