Far more important

[Philippe D.]

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5. You may not think this first upgrade is worth it -- fine, maybe the next one will be. Wait for that one.

The question is: Can you get an upgrade #2 without having #1 first ?

I doubt.

[giordano]

As I said in another thread, this will depend on the nature of the various upgrades. Some (e.g. an improved shutter button and on/off switch) probably won't have any prerequisites, but if this really is the start of a long journey then some certainly will.

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[carstenw]

The question is: Can you get an upgrade #2 without having #1 first? I doubt it.

 

I suppose that it depends on the update. One possible variant is that #1 plus #2 will cost less as a single upgrade than separately, since they only have to pick up, disassemble, CLA, assemble, and return ship the camera once. That should make them more affordable for those who cannot justify €1200 every two years to keep their camera on the leading edge.

 

I am personally very happy to see this path being offered. I find the price quite steep though. I will wait for the soundfiles to compare the noise. Framelines and shutter noise are my two big complaints, apart from the bugs. If the tighter framelines would be offered at the same time, I would upgrade for sure. I also wish that a smaller digital body (M6 size) had been designed first, before this upgrade mill got started.

[carstenw]

I think it is an exceedingly clever stroke by Leica. In one go they have:

 

1.Made themselves unique in the digital world

2.Bolstered the Leica image of " eternal" cameras

3.Spread the cost of developing an M9 over a decade

4.Secured a steady income out of cameras already sold

5.Started selling the M9 in installments.

 

I think the R10 might well follow the same concept.

Looking back, the DMR was a false start on the same path.

 

6. Ensure continued work for their trained technicians.

[Philippe D.]

I am personally very happy to see this path being offered.

Me too.

It was my first question last year, will the M8 be "upgradable" (i had the sensor in mind) ?

It seems we are on the right path.

I got pimples on the though a M9 could made my M8s at 999,99€, or less, value over night.

[Ecaton]

The concept of upgrading sounds compelling. Yet, in this case, you do not get what you pay for. A pure manual, (German) labour intense process to handle losgisitcs, replace shutter and screen produces as far as I am concerned, an evidently unattractive ratio between cost/price and value. The extended two year warranty is nice, but should be offered as a seperate option, at much lower cost, including a full service of the camera.

If, in my humble opinion, relatively insignificant improvements (which yet have to show their relevance for picture taking) cost already as much as a new D3 or E3, how much might Solms have to charge to replace electronics or even upgrade a sensor?

 

Being a hapy owner/user of the M8 for more than a year now, this is the first time that a feel the urge to voice my concern and disappointment about Solms' strategy. They seem to be more concerned about their revenue and cash flow rather than trying to help preserving the value of "our investments" (which aren't investments anyway, wherefore the latter is pure marketing talk).

Meanwhile, the M8 market might be pretty saturated, and without knowing actual numbers, I expect M8 sales to have slowed down significantly year over year. The announced strategy will allow Leica to substitute at least some of their lost M8 sales revenue with revenue from upgrading. The prepayment helps reducing their financing costs, at the expense of customers. I.e. those who understand the concept of time value of money realise the upgrading price exceeding the officially announced 1200 Euros.

 

I'm not sure Leica's strategy is good enough to support the company's long term survival.

[jaapv]

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But- If you don't think it value for money, there is no reason to do it!

I have two M8's. I will upgrade one.

[mhoersch]

But- If you don't think it value for money, there is no reason to do it!

I have two M8's. I will upgrade one.

 

This is probably a good idea. My first body will be 20 months old in August, my second one only 9. Upgrading the older body will give me two different M8s to compare for some time until I consider upgrading the second one. The longer I think about it the more interesting it becomes! If only they remove the bugs at the same time, as one of Guy's recent posts has made me hope!

[imported_reinierv]

I'm really interrested in the upgradable kamera concept. I simply do not hope that it is just another hollow marketing phrase as we see so many...

 

Also I'm curious, My camera is just over a month old and already have 2 years waranty, do I now get 4 or 2 starting after the upgrade...

[guy]

As a general question, without knowing in advance how improved the quieter shutter will be, would you take a punt on that amount of money in the hope that it's the shutter of your dreams? (This is assuming that the shutter upgrade is the most attractive part of the bundle to you; it is to me.) It seems like a LOT of money for a nebulous promise... Thoughts?

[aj55]

I like the M8 as it is. If I thought the shutter to be too noisy I wouldn't have bought it in the first place!

No upgrades for me. For the latest tech I'll stick to Canon (or Nikon).

[GMB]

I like my M8 and I am glad I bought it. I also like the idea of a camera that is upgraded to keep up with the rapidly developing digital technology. What irritates me, though, is the content of the "upgrade" which looks more like fixing flaws in the camera rather than introducing new (digital) technology. Of course, fixing flaws in exising models is not a bad idea, but if the rumors as regards the price are true, I find this a rather expensive fix. I would also hope that Leica allows an a la carte upgrade as some may be interested in the new shutte whereas other may only want the saphire glasse and vice versa.

 

Looking ahead, the interesting thing will be whether the new models include the improvements sold to existing customers via an upgrade (which I assume they will) and at what price the new models will be sold. I don't think it will be price new = price old + price upgrade, in particular as even Leica cannot increase the prices without limit, of can they So if the price difference is not too big, it may make sense for some people to simply skip one or two upgrades and then by a new model and keep the other as second body.

 

As someone said before, very interesting times ahead.

 

Georg.

[jaapv]

I would hardly call the current shutter a flaw. It is a good shutter and as for the noise, well, it does not bother me nor many other users. On the other hand, I was shooting the M8 beside my M3 last weekend - and I must admit, that makes the idea of this upgrade most attractive.

[jaapv]

I agree. Here's the bottom line: Charging $1800 for a glass LCD screen and a slower shutter is the most ludicrous marketing hoax Leica has yet perpetrated, but like those that preceded it, is destined to be lapped up eagerly by the loyal devotees and therefore should be considered pure genius.

 

However, those who have their sensibilities intact (or regain them in time) will recognise that without spending a cent for what constitutes a supremely absurd squandering of funds, the value of their existing M8 will remain far greater than had Leica chosen to merely replace the M8 with a successor model as every other camera manufacturer has done.

 

 

I suggest, Vinay, that you look up the meaning of the word "hoax" in a dictionary, as your clearly do not grasp the meaning of it.

Leica states what they will do and states what it will cost and leaves you free in your decision to accept or decline (which is more than a fair proportion of medical specialists will do btw.) So where is the hoax?

 

The last line of your post, however, hits the nail right on the head.

[jaapv]

I like the M8 as it is. If I thought the shutter to be too noisy I wouldn't have bought it in the first place!

No upgrades for me. For the latest tech I'll stick to Canon (or Nikon).

 

I cannot recall when you ever bought a Canon:p

[ptomsu]

I think it is an exceedingly clever stroke by Leica. In one go they have:

 

1.Made themselves unique in the digital world

2.Bolstered the Leica image of " eternal" cameras

3.Spread the cost of developing an M9 over a decade

4.Secured a steady income out of cameras already sold

5.Started selling the M9 in installments.

 

I think the R10 might well follow the same concept.

Looking back, the DMR was a false start on the same path.

 

If this is their real goal and not just some clever marketing to overcome a current new product lack, then I would be very happy.

 

But I fear that this is marketing and hiding lack of new announcements during PMA 2008.

[Guest Olof]

I like the concept of upgrades and it gives me comfort. HOWEVER, what seriously concerns me is the slow speed of advancement they are making.

 

When this upgrade will start to be available (8/08) the camera will have been in the market for TWO (2) YEARS. A new cover glass and changes to the shutter is all they have come up with??

 

Projecting forward from this, I do not even want to think about when a FF upgrade or improved (digital?) RF system might be available and at what cost.

 

Leica: wake up, please.

 

The analoge M´s where in the market for over 50 years, without any real changes... so where is the problem ?

[imported_reinierv]

People that ask Leica to make camera's that look more like other camera's really do not get the point