jaapv Posted January 30, 2008 Share #1 Posted January 30, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) Far more important that all other "upgrade" quibbles is the first statement of the M8 mail, which is a clear indicator of Leica's vision of the digital future: Dear LEICA M8 customers, With the introduction of a perpetual upgrade program, every LEICA M8 will forever be a state-of-the-art digital camera. Today’s and tomorrow’s users will always be able to incorporate the latest refinements and developments in handling ease and technology. It is our aim to secure your investment in the LEICA M8 for the future. “While other digital cameras quickly become outdated and are replaced by newer models, our new concept extends the value retention and resistance to obsolescence embodied in the Leica ethos. Over time, we will gradually offer new product features and developments as upgrade options,” declares Steven K. Lee, CEO of Leica Camera AG. “Our customers can therefore still invest in the photographic tools they need without worrying that they will miss out on improvements and technological developments along the way. It is a firm and final commtment to the upgradable digital camera. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 30, 2008 Posted January 30, 2008 Hi jaapv, Take a look here Far more important. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
KM-25 Posted January 30, 2008 Share #2 Posted January 30, 2008 In theory, this does sound awesome. But we will have to see what actually happens in practice and for what price. I can in finance, pay nearly two grand for these upgrades, but I can not in principal as they offer very little value for the money if the rumored price for the 1st upgrade cycle is accurate. What would a new sensor, correct frame lines or a new processing engine cost then, 6 grand for the upgrade or just buy the new camera for $5,800? I'll gladly do the firmware update but as for spending $1,800 on a new LCD cover, new shutter and a couple more years of warranty, I'll pass. At that price, it makes it seem like one could hemorrhage operating capitol in trying to keep this camera even moderately up to date. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tummydoc Posted January 30, 2008 Share #3 Posted January 30, 2008 To me the statement is ludicrous at best. Nobody knows what the future of digital imaging will bring, therefore nobody can state with certainty that the M8 will be upgradeable "forever". Marketing hyperbole, nothing more. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikelc Posted January 30, 2008 Share #4 Posted January 30, 2008 i agree....i love the camera the way it is and since i only shoot in raw even the awb issues are not a real problem...i'd much prefer just ongoing 'free' firmware upgrades and a future m9... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jklotz Posted January 30, 2008 Share #5 Posted January 30, 2008 I keep seeing this upgrade price as being $1800. Where is that number coming from? I didn't see it in the notice from Leica - did I miss it, or has the internet rumor mill been running ramped again? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdrmd Posted January 30, 2008 Share #6 Posted January 30, 2008 I agree with KM25. I do not need the LCD cover or the quieter motor. Firmware, yes if it corrects the hopeless AWB. The price seems steep for the improvements. DR Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 30, 2008 Author Share #7 Posted January 30, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) To me the statement is ludicrous at best. Nobody knows what the future of digital imaging will bring, therefore nobody can state with certainty that the M8 will be upgradeable "forever". Marketing hyperbole, nothing more. No; a totally different approach. I agree that the implementation is something that will only be clear in retrospect. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 30, 2008 Author Share #8 Posted January 30, 2008 I agree with KM25. I do not need the LCD cover or the quieter motor. Firmware, yes if it corrects the hopeless AWB. The price seems steep for the improvements. DR So - no problem. you are under no obligation to avail yourself of the offer. According to Guy's post the AWB is improved with the new (free) firmware. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tummydoc Posted January 30, 2008 Share #9 Posted January 30, 2008 No; a totally different approach. I agree that the implementation is something that will only be clear in retrospect. ...which makes the promise rather hollow, if not outright meaningless, does it not? And will make for quite a bitter mouthful of words for Leica to eat at the point they can no longer viably upgrade the M8. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeitz Posted January 30, 2008 Share #10 Posted January 30, 2008 The two parts mentioned are both expensive - a new shutter and sapphire crystal. The quieter shutter is attractive, especially if the shutter cocking motor is also quieter. I wouldn't care if the max shutter speed were even 1/1000 given a really quiet event at shutter release. But 1/8000 may be of use to Noctilux users. I have not scratched my glass in the 13 months I've had my camera, so it is hard to justify its expense. I'll have to wait for test reports on the noise before I decide. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 30, 2008 Author Share #11 Posted January 30, 2008 I keep seeing this upgrade price as being $1800. Where is that number coming from? I didn't see it in the notice from Leica - did I miss it, or has the internet rumor mill been running ramped again? At the present exchange rate 1800$ does not seem much from a European perspective;) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldie Posted January 30, 2008 Share #12 Posted January 30, 2008 To me the statement is ludicrous at best. Nobody knows what the future of digital imaging will bring, therefore nobody can state with certainty that the M8 will be upgradeable "forever". Marketing hyperbole, nothing more. There may be marketing hyberbole in the statement, but your statement is frankly mischievous. Companies like Leica will have access to information on developments and possibilities well into the future. Not least because they employ people who actually have knowledge and understanding of the subject. In other words they are not muppets. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tummydoc Posted January 30, 2008 Share #13 Posted January 30, 2008 At the present exchange rate 1800$ does not seem much from a European perspective;) It's slightly more than 1200 euros. I should say that would seem like quite a bit from the perspective of most Europeans. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tummydoc Posted January 30, 2008 Share #14 Posted January 30, 2008 There may be marketing hyberbole in the statement, but your statement is frankly mischievous. Companies like Leica will have access to information on developments and possibilities well into the future. Not least because they employ people who actually have knowledge and understanding of the subject.In other words they are not muppets. Huh? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdrmd Posted January 30, 2008 Share #15 Posted January 30, 2008 JaapV: I think you are right. According to the e-mail I received, I can just use the firmware upgrade. What I worry about is whether the incremental upgrades will be dependent on one another. As in: If I skip the first, can I use the second, or third without going back and getting the first? I suspect we find out soon. DR Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pekem Posted January 30, 2008 Share #16 Posted January 30, 2008 • Health-check and complete adjustment of the camera, testing all its functions. • Installation of the newest relevant firmware. • New factory warranty of two years covering the same conditions as for a new camera Well I think that it is excellent news. Free firmware upgrades have been made available and it seems that they will continue. An offer to upgrade hardware, albeit at what is thought by some to be at a high price, is accompanied by a two year warranty for the camera, not just the modifications, is in my view very good news. How often in the past have subscribers here mentioned the vulnerability felt when a camera is approaching the end of the warranty period and a fault develops? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJP Posted January 30, 2008 Share #17 Posted January 30, 2008 To me the statement is ludicrous at best. Nobody knows what the future of digital imaging will bring, therefore nobody can state with certainty that the M8 will be upgradeable "forever". Marketing hyperbole, nothing more. Interestingly the most important part of the camera has not changed that much over the past 60-70 years or so (apart from the g..k that operates it), The theory of optics i.e. the piece of glass you are using is not really a limiting factor. So how much are you expecting to change? More pixels is useless, full frame - ok but not essential, higher sensitivity - maybe one or two stops at most & this is a 10-20 year timeframe proposition. The difference between a M3 and a M8 in essence is only convenience. NOT the quality of pictures that you can make. Buy a 50+ year old piece of Leica glass and you will still be happy (most of the time). The fact that the M series has lasted this long is an unprecedented success in design. It means that they managed to get things close to perfect first time round & and I feel proud to be part of that. If only as a willing customer. So mr./mrs./ms. tummydoc what revolutionary changes are you actually expecting? Specifics please. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtmerideth Posted January 30, 2008 Share #18 Posted January 30, 2008 There are two issues that I'm curious about relating to the permanent future of the M8. 1. What does the dealer network do without a new product? 2. In the website that leaked the info, there is a statement that the new price of the M8 will be 3390 pounds sterling. Or about $6780usd which is about $2000 more than the original list. So new M8's and updated M8's are valued the same? Then do M8's which have not been updated remain close to their original cost? Interesting times. g. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted January 30, 2008 Share #19 Posted January 30, 2008 I think it's splendid Whether I want the first upgrade is quite a different matter - but one might argue that it's worth the price for the 2 year warranty upgrade. I'm surprised at so many negative responses - it was the same when Kodak offered sensor upgrades for the 14n - if you don't like the price or you don't want the update . . . . then don't buy it. Simple as that - but other manufacturers simply don't offer this kind of an option. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted January 30, 2008 Share #20 Posted January 30, 2008 It's a nice idea in principle but if a modest upgrade - a new shutter and screen coverglass - costs €1200, imagine what a new sensor, or an electronic rangefinder would cost. The cost of a new camera is not going to increase by anything like the upgrade cost and a significant proportion of that cost is spent shipping the camera around the place, taking it apart, discarding perfectly usable components, adding the warranty and so on. I can see the logic - maybe - of one mid-life makeover but it needs to be more comprehensive than this. However, the idea of a new upgrade package every 12-18 months doesn't seem so attractive. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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