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sdai

No M9, Only M8-2

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That's not what I was told yesterday. Maybe they will be selling both flavours. The premium still won't be €1200, though.

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The €1200 is only a valid additional price if they have to take apart an existing M8 and rebuild it. When they build M8.2s as standard, for sale in the summer, I see no reason (assuming the replacement parts are of a similar cost) why the premium should be anything like that, over the current M8 price.

 

Tough to know about the parts cost, but I agree that the M8.2 premium should not be as big as the upgrade cost.

 

I don't think this is especially helpful to re-sale values - the ability to upgrade the camera will tend to make potential buyers discount the amount they're willing to pay by the upgrade cost.

 

So if the new camera is $6000 and the upgrade is $1800, what am I going to be prepared to pay for a used/unmodified camera in otherwise mint condition? Two days ago, it might have been $4500, now it's more likely to be $3000.

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Guest guy_mancuso

Yea i got that they will build it so i will have to check this again to be sure. Hopefully we will get this info in the morning. I know Sean is reporting not and i have no doubts in his info. but sometimes the right hand is not telling the left hand so we will both check it tomorrow to be sure . Neither one of us want to have bad info out there. Besides that you guys wore me out today, hitting the rack . Hopefully it will be a bright day for all of us.

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Andy,

That is what Sean is reporting. I assume he has his sources.

 

That's fair enough. But my source who broke this story told me that yesterday.

 

Today's Thursday. I am sure that a definitive answer to this question will be along later.

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Guest guy_mancuso

Yea it is 11:30 here in Vegas time. Figure press releases hit the world press at 9 am in the morning as the show opens. Yes Andy i heard they will be on the shelf together as well so let's see what the morning brings on this one. Guess i need to start putting some money away for something here. LOL

 

The black hole never ends

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Let's break this down a bit, folks.

 

If Leica is saying they will

  • internally dampen the noise of a brand-new titanium shutter mechanism so my M8 is no louder than my M6 ($600 seems fair--far less than the price of a dedicated system for noise reduction)
  • extend the all-round warranty for two more years ($500)
  • handle pick up and delivery from Canada to Germany ($100 or more)
  • do a CLA ($500 right there) on the 2 year old M8

then to me the sapphire cover is mere $100--I maybe would rather not have it but really, I'm not complaining about it.

 

I can live without 1/8000 (especially if they lower the minimum ISO) once I understood their noise comparison for the shutter (M7 / M6 levels).

 

Again, if you're happy with your camera the way it is--don't upgrade. There will be an upgrade you want someday, though, I'm willing to bet

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Guess i need to start putting some money away for something here. LOL

 

 

Save your money for the pellicle mirror. You know you want one... you know you'll buy one...

 

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Guest guy_mancuso

Jamie BTW i forgot to mention there is a body already done at PMA so I WILL get a chance to hear it. I want to take it to Moab but there sending it back to Germany after the show. Damn be nice if we had it on the workshop.

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Guest guy_mancuso
Save your money for the pellicle mirror. You know you want one... you know you'll buy one...

 

 

You know your making my wallet tremble in fear. LOL

 

I would love a R10 , no question

 

This stuff is very addicting.

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You know your making my wallet tremble in fear. LOL

 

I would love a R10 , no question

 

This stuff is very addicting.

 

We should know when Guy starts dumping his M system, "guymancuso" has been bookmarked as a favorite seller by me on eBay. All his activities are now under surveillance of my bot script.

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Guest guy_mancuso

That is just to freaking funny Simon. Guilty as charged.

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Tough to know about the parts cost, but I agree that the M8.2 premium should not be as big as the upgrade cost.

 

I don't think this is especially helpful to re-sale values - the ability to upgrade the camera will tend to make potential buyers discount the amount they're willing to pay by the upgrade cost.

 

So if the new camera is $6000 and the upgrade is $1800, what am I going to be prepared to pay for a used/unmodified camera in otherwise mint condition? Two days ago, it might have been $4500, now it's more likely to be $3000.

But you won't have to sell your camera to buy the newer type now, won't you? So the price of a used one is mot.

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Figure press releases hit the world press at 9 am in the morning as the show opens.

 

I can't wait to hear if there's some new Pana-Leica's coming along...

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{snipped}

I don't think this is especially helpful to re-sale values - the ability to upgrade the camera will tend to make potential buyers discount the amount they're willing to pay by the upgrade cost.

 

So if the new camera is $6000 and the upgrade is $1800, what am I going to be prepared to pay for a used/unmodified camera in otherwise mint condition? Two days ago, it might have been $4500, now it's more likely to be $3000.

 

Hmmm. I think that's slightly flawed logic...

 

If the cost of entry into the system, new, is $6K without the upgrades, then it's $6k.

 

You're not likely to get a used, but upgraded, system for the same price as as a used non-upgraded system

and I think you'd be silly if you think someone would drop $1500 to you so you could upgrade for free and gain entry into the system.

 

Instead, the seller is likely to say--look, you're saving the price of the upgrade from the new price. So give me $4500 for this used, non-upgraded body--which after all, unlike anyone else's digicam, CAN be upgraded

 

Now if you're actually saying the cost of the upgraded camera, new, will be $6k, then I think that's not going to happen anytime in the near future.

 

It will happen in a year or two, maybe, but by then it will be a different M8 (and all the rest of us will have had a chance to follow along, which you wouldn't if you were trading in Canons or Nikons).

 

IOW, think about what your D3 will be worth when the D3x--let alone the D4-comes out

I know it doesn't matter, in a way, if you've gotten "the use" out of it, but I still bet it loses more than 50% off retail when you get past 24 months.

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Hello Gentlemen

 

I have been truly amazed at the response that my posting on the Leica M8 upgrade has caused.

It was never my intention to pre-empt Leica's announcement and at no time during my briefings with my area manager was I told not to disclose the information.

As for the references to me being a 'nut' and a 'hole in the wall dealer' then i'll leave that

to my friends and satisfied customers of long standing to comment.

I do not wish to make any further postings on this matter save that, like most people on

this forum, I also am a Leica user, fan and enthusiast as well as a dealer. I love the product, foibles and all, and hope to be involved with it for a long time to come.

Cheers to Andy Barton and others who spoke up for me on the M8 debate and please carry on the entertainment.

 

David

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I'll back David any day as a dealer. Left my charger in London. He was able to provide me the one from his display model knowing he could get another one in in time to meet his needs. All this on 24th December. A shame to slag him off for sharing what he knew at a time when he wasn't under eny embargo so far as he knew.

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It was never my intention to pre-empt Leica's announcement and at no time during my briefings with my area manager was I told not to disclose the information.

 

Sorry, David, but the fact the Leica Area Manager didn't tell you not to disclose the information doesn't give you licence to do so. The information should have been left for Leica to disclose as they see fit, instead of which we have your gratuitous self-indulgent grandstanding.

 

If your comment about the R10 on your same site is privileged information, you should remove it because it is NOT yours to disclose. Leica have played the R10 very close to their chests up to now and I doubt they would choose some outfit in Manchester to announce these things to the world.

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Hmmm. I think that's slightly flawed logic...

 

If the cost of entry into the system, new, is $6K without the upgrades, then it's $6k.

 

You're not likely to get a used, but upgraded, system for the same price as as a used non-upgraded system

and I think you'd be silly if you think someone would drop $1500 to you so you could upgrade for free and gain entry into the system.

 

Instead, the seller is likely to say--look, you're saving the price of the upgrade from the new price. So give me $4500 for this used, non-upgraded body--which after all, unlike anyone else's digicam, CAN be upgraded

 

Now if you're actually saying the cost of the upgraded camera, new, will be $6k, then I think that's not going to happen anytime in the near future.

 

It will happen in a year or two, maybe, but by then it will be a different M8 (and all the rest of us will have had a chance to follow along, which you wouldn't if you were trading in Canons or Nikons).

 

IOW, think about what your D3 will be worth when the D3x--let alone the D4-comes out

I know it doesn't matter, in a way, if you've gotten "the use" out of it, but I still bet it loses more than 50% off retail when you get past 24 months.

 

Oh sure my D3 will drop in value, just as my D2x has done, say, 70% in 28 months and the same will be true of any D3x I buy. I accept that upgrading an M8 will prop up its value compared to not upgrading it but you then have the cost of the upgrade to fund and there still needs to be blue sky between the second hand value of an upgraded M8 and a new M8.2.

 

Much will hinge on the M8.2 premium but it's basically down to accepting higher depreciation or incurring higher cost.

 

My position is clear. I'm heavily invested in the M8 - 3 cameras, 18 lenses - and I think it's unlikely I will spring $1800 to upgrade even one of them.

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Sorry, David, but the fact the Leica Area Manager didn't tell you not to disclose the information doesn't give you licence to do so. The information should have been left for Leica to disclose as they see fit, instead of which we have your gratuitous self-indulgent grandstanding.

 

If your comment about the R10 on your same site is privileged information, you should remove it because it is NOT yours to disclose. Leica have played the R10 very close to their chests up to now and I doubt they would choose some outfit in Manchester to announce these things to the world.

 

 

David, I have never bought from you, but I felt aggrieved on your behalf at some of the comments made; and here is another.

 

Mark, You are talking rubbish of the order of people in the street claiming "privacy".

 

If David was not asked to sign an NDA, he has absolutely no case to answer. Information that comes to him as part of his daily business is his to do with as he sees fit unless expressly forbidden, in writing, to do so.

 

I suggest you get your facts straight. I really don't understand the hissy fits around this.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

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