andybarton Posted January 31, 2008 Share #281 Posted January 31, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) That's not what I was told yesterday. Maybe they will be selling both flavours. The premium still won't be €1200, though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 31, 2008 Posted January 31, 2008 Hi andybarton, Take a look here No M9, Only M8-2. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
marknorton Posted January 31, 2008 Share #282 Posted January 31, 2008 The €1200 is only a valid additional price if they have to take apart an existing M8 and rebuild it. When they build M8.2s as standard, for sale in the summer, I see no reason (assuming the replacement parts are of a similar cost) why the premium should be anything like that, over the current M8 price. Tough to know about the parts cost, but I agree that the M8.2 premium should not be as big as the upgrade cost. I don't think this is especially helpful to re-sale values - the ability to upgrade the camera will tend to make potential buyers discount the amount they're willing to pay by the upgrade cost. So if the new camera is $6000 and the upgrade is $1800, what am I going to be prepared to pay for a used/unmodified camera in otherwise mint condition? Two days ago, it might have been $4500, now it's more likely to be $3000. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted January 31, 2008 Share #283 Posted January 31, 2008 Yea i got that they will build it so i will have to check this again to be sure. Hopefully we will get this info in the morning. I know Sean is reporting not and i have no doubts in his info. but sometimes the right hand is not telling the left hand so we will both check it tomorrow to be sure . Neither one of us want to have bad info out there. Besides that you guys wore me out today, hitting the rack . Hopefully it will be a bright day for all of us. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barjohn Posted January 31, 2008 Share #284 Posted January 31, 2008 Andy, That is what Sean is reporting. I assume he has his sources. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted January 31, 2008 Share #285 Posted January 31, 2008 Andy,That is what Sean is reporting. I assume he has his sources. That's fair enough. But my source who broke this story told me that yesterday. Today's Thursday. I am sure that a definitive answer to this question will be along later. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted January 31, 2008 Share #286 Posted January 31, 2008 Yea it is 11:30 here in Vegas time. Figure press releases hit the world press at 9 am in the morning as the show opens. Yes Andy i heard they will be on the shelf together as well so let's see what the morning brings on this one. Guess i need to start putting some money away for something here. LOL The black hole never ends Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted January 31, 2008 Share #287 Posted January 31, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) Let's break this down a bit, folks. If Leica is saying they will internally dampen the noise of a brand-new titanium shutter mechanism so my M8 is no louder than my M6 ($600 seems fair--far less than the price of a dedicated system for noise reduction) extend the all-round warranty for two more years ($500) handle pick up and delivery from Canada to Germany ($100 or more) do a CLA ($500 right there) on the 2 year old M8 then to me the sapphire cover is mere $100--I maybe would rather not have it but really, I'm not complaining about it. I can live without 1/8000 (especially if they lower the minimum ISO) once I understood their noise comparison for the shutter (M7 / M6 levels). Again, if you're happy with your camera the way it is--don't upgrade. There will be an upgrade you want someday, though, I'm willing to bet Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted January 31, 2008 Share #288 Posted January 31, 2008 Guess i need to start putting some money away for something here. LOL Save your money for the pellicle mirror. You know you want one... you know you'll buy one... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted January 31, 2008 Share #289 Posted January 31, 2008 Jamie BTW i forgot to mention there is a body already done at PMA so I WILL get a chance to hear it. I want to take it to Moab but there sending it back to Germany after the show. Damn be nice if we had it on the workshop. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted January 31, 2008 Share #290 Posted January 31, 2008 Save your money for the pellicle mirror. You know you want one... you know you'll buy one... You know your making my wallet tremble in fear. LOL I would love a R10 , no question This stuff is very addicting. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted January 31, 2008 Author Share #291 Posted January 31, 2008 You know your making my wallet tremble in fear. LOL I would love a R10 , no question This stuff is very addicting. We should know when Guy starts dumping his M system, "guymancuso" has been bookmarked as a favorite seller by me on eBay. All his activities are now under surveillance of my bot script. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted January 31, 2008 Share #292 Posted January 31, 2008 That is just to freaking funny Simon. Guilty as charged. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 31, 2008 Share #293 Posted January 31, 2008 Tough to know about the parts cost, but I agree that the M8.2 premium should not be as big as the upgrade cost. I don't think this is especially helpful to re-sale values - the ability to upgrade the camera will tend to make potential buyers discount the amount they're willing to pay by the upgrade cost. So if the new camera is $6000 and the upgrade is $1800, what am I going to be prepared to pay for a used/unmodified camera in otherwise mint condition? Two days ago, it might have been $4500, now it's more likely to be $3000. But you won't have to sell your camera to buy the newer type now, won't you? So the price of a used one is mot. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted January 31, 2008 Share #294 Posted January 31, 2008 Figure press releases hit the world press at 9 am in the morning as the show opens. I can't wait to hear if there's some new Pana-Leica's coming along... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted January 31, 2008 Share #295 Posted January 31, 2008 {snipped}I don't think this is especially helpful to re-sale values - the ability to upgrade the camera will tend to make potential buyers discount the amount they're willing to pay by the upgrade cost. So if the new camera is $6000 and the upgrade is $1800, what am I going to be prepared to pay for a used/unmodified camera in otherwise mint condition? Two days ago, it might have been $4500, now it's more likely to be $3000. Hmmm. I think that's slightly flawed logic... If the cost of entry into the system, new, is $6K without the upgrades, then it's $6k. You're not likely to get a used, but upgraded, system for the same price as as a used non-upgraded system and I think you'd be silly if you think someone would drop $1500 to you so you could upgrade for free and gain entry into the system. Instead, the seller is likely to say--look, you're saving the price of the upgrade from the new price. So give me $4500 for this used, non-upgraded body--which after all, unlike anyone else's digicam, CAN be upgraded Now if you're actually saying the cost of the upgraded camera, new, will be $6k, then I think that's not going to happen anytime in the near future. It will happen in a year or two, maybe, but by then it will be a different M8 (and all the rest of us will have had a chance to follow along, which you wouldn't if you were trading in Canons or Nikons). IOW, think about what your D3 will be worth when the D3x--let alone the D4-comes out I know it doesn't matter, in a way, if you've gotten "the use" out of it, but I still bet it loses more than 50% off retail when you get past 24 months. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Stephens Posted January 31, 2008 Share #296 Posted January 31, 2008 Hello Gentlemen I have been truly amazed at the response that my posting on the Leica M8 upgrade has caused. It was never my intention to pre-empt Leica's announcement and at no time during my briefings with my area manager was I told not to disclose the information. As for the references to me being a 'nut' and a 'hole in the wall dealer' then i'll leave that to my friends and satisfied customers of long standing to comment. I do not wish to make any further postings on this matter save that, like most people on this forum, I also am a Leica user, fan and enthusiast as well as a dealer. I love the product, foibles and all, and hope to be involved with it for a long time to come. Cheers to Andy Barton and others who spoke up for me on the M8 debate and please carry on the entertainment. David 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted January 31, 2008 Share #297 Posted January 31, 2008 I'll back David any day as a dealer. Left my charger in London. He was able to provide me the one from his display model knowing he could get another one in in time to meet his needs. All this on 24th December. A shame to slag him off for sharing what he knew at a time when he wasn't under eny embargo so far as he knew. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted January 31, 2008 Share #298 Posted January 31, 2008 It was never my intention to pre-empt Leica's announcement and at no time during my briefings with my area manager was I told not to disclose the information. Sorry, David, but the fact the Leica Area Manager didn't tell you not to disclose the information doesn't give you licence to do so. The information should have been left for Leica to disclose as they see fit, instead of which we have your gratuitous self-indulgent grandstanding. If your comment about the R10 on your same site is privileged information, you should remove it because it is NOT yours to disclose. Leica have played the R10 very close to their chests up to now and I doubt they would choose some outfit in Manchester to announce these things to the world. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted January 31, 2008 Share #299 Posted January 31, 2008 Hmmm. I think that's slightly flawed logic... If the cost of entry into the system, new, is $6K without the upgrades, then it's $6k. You're not likely to get a used, but upgraded, system for the same price as as a used non-upgraded system and I think you'd be silly if you think someone would drop $1500 to you so you could upgrade for free and gain entry into the system. Instead, the seller is likely to say--look, you're saving the price of the upgrade from the new price. So give me $4500 for this used, non-upgraded body--which after all, unlike anyone else's digicam, CAN be upgraded Now if you're actually saying the cost of the upgraded camera, new, will be $6k, then I think that's not going to happen anytime in the near future. It will happen in a year or two, maybe, but by then it will be a different M8 (and all the rest of us will have had a chance to follow along, which you wouldn't if you were trading in Canons or Nikons). IOW, think about what your D3 will be worth when the D3x--let alone the D4-comes out I know it doesn't matter, in a way, if you've gotten "the use" out of it, but I still bet it loses more than 50% off retail when you get past 24 months. Oh sure my D3 will drop in value, just as my D2x has done, say, 70% in 28 months and the same will be true of any D3x I buy. I accept that upgrading an M8 will prop up its value compared to not upgrading it but you then have the cost of the upgrade to fund and there still needs to be blue sky between the second hand value of an upgraded M8 and a new M8.2. Much will hinge on the M8.2 premium but it's basically down to accepting higher depreciation or incurring higher cost. My position is clear. I'm heavily invested in the M8 - 3 cameras, 18 lenses - and I think it's unlikely I will spring $1800 to upgrade even one of them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted January 31, 2008 Share #300 Posted January 31, 2008 Sorry, David, but the fact the Leica Area Manager didn't tell you not to disclose the information doesn't give you licence to do so. The information should have been left for Leica to disclose as they see fit, instead of which we have your gratuitous self-indulgent grandstanding. If your comment about the R10 on your same site is privileged information, you should remove it because it is NOT yours to disclose. Leica have played the R10 very close to their chests up to now and I doubt they would choose some outfit in Manchester to announce these things to the world. David, I have never bought from you, but I felt aggrieved on your behalf at some of the comments made; and here is another. Mark, You are talking rubbish of the order of people in the street claiming "privacy". If David was not asked to sign an NDA, he has absolutely no case to answer. Information that comes to him as part of his daily business is his to do with as he sees fit unless expressly forbidden, in writing, to do so. I suggest you get your facts straight. I really don't understand the hissy fits around this. Regards, Bill Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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