kennekam Posted January 17, 2008 Share #1 Posted January 17, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) I have a Nikon D3 which I bought to complement my D300 when shooting wildlife. In practice the 1.5x effect of the D300 is better suited to shooting wildlfe as it extends the range of my 200-400 lens. I have been using the D3 for general and landscape photography and love the high ISO levels, but find it a bit large and also noisy to use as a walkaround camera. I also have an M3 and a IIIf with a selection of older Leica lenses. I love using the M3 as it is small and unobtrusive, but struggle a bit with it not having an integrated lightmeter. I have been hankering after a digital M3 for a while. Would it make sense to swap my D3 for an M8? I know the high ISO performance on the D3 is better, but what about the IQ on the M8? How does it compare? Would my old Leica lenses do justice to the M8 or will I have to invest in newer ones to get the full potential? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 17, 2008 Posted January 17, 2008 Hi kennekam, Take a look here Swap Nikon D3 for M8?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Guest stnami Posted January 17, 2008 Share #2 Posted January 17, 2008 Flame throwing! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted January 17, 2008 Share #3 Posted January 17, 2008 John welcome to the forum (Pay no attention to stnami). Whether anyone on this forum would trade a M8 for a D3 I don't know, I wouldn't as it would never get used. There are many posts on this forum about image quality of the M8 and many pictures posted from M8's on the image forums. I have had my M8/s for almost a year and I'm still amazed by the images I get from them. Yes your older lenses will work with the M8, most of them, with a LTM to M mount adadpter/s. The only thing you have to watch out for is on lenses that protrude deeply into the camera and or that have some type of shroud around the rear element. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artichoke Posted January 17, 2008 Share #4 Posted January 17, 2008 which I understand is an amazing camera as I do not shoot at ISO > 800 (640 on the conservatively rated M8) all that often, the D3's high ISO performance is of less interest to me ...the 2 FPS I get shooting DNGs with the M8 is more than sufficient for what I shoot as well I would use my next DSLR for macro and telephoto work, both of which are at a disadvantage with a FF sensor ...for now I am doing this with my M8 using a Viso, which works fine at macro & is a bit more problematic for telephoto, though I haven't really tried this all that much from what I have seen posted of D3 photographs, I believe the colors from the M8 superior, particularly for skin tones and the details captured every bit as good, if not superior ...it may be the lenses used or the AA filter or the inherent RF design advantages, but I am constantly amazed at the quality of files I get from my M8 the D3X may be a better choice for a camera to compliment my M8 or the next Fujifilm DSLR offering, which I hope with be out soon along with Kodak who made the M8's sensor, Fujifilm seems to make sensors that produce very film-like files ...it may have something to do with these companies' lineage ...I would prefer this camera be an APS, though I suspect these will be FF Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennekam Posted January 17, 2008 Author Share #5 Posted January 17, 2008 I have an Elmar 50 f/3.5 and Summitar 50 with my IIIf and an Elmarit 90 f/2.8, an Elmar 135 /f4 and a Summicron 50 f/2 with my M3. I presume these lenses will fit (with an adaptor for the LTM lenses) on the M8, but how will they fare quality wise? After all there is a 50 year gap between them? I do use old MF Nikkor lenses with my D3, but am always aware that the newer coated lenses (eg 24-70 f/2.8) are just a bit better. Will I have the same experience with the M8? Do I need to get new lenses to get the best out of the M8? Perhaps I am better off just using my M3 as a wonderful 'mature' image maker for when I want to get back to basics and then using the Nikon stuff for when I want high tech and long lenses? Incidentally I did not think that anyone would actually do a swap. I would have to sell the one to buy the other. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanJW Posted January 17, 2008 Share #6 Posted January 17, 2008 I have a Nikon D3 which I bought to complement my D300 when shooting wildlife. In practice the 1.5x effect of the D300 is better suited to shooting wildlfe as it extends the range of my 200-400 lens. I have been using the D3 for general and landscape photography and love the high ISO levels, but find it a bit large and also noisy to use as a walkaround camera. I also have an M3 and a IIIf with a selection of older Leica lenses. I love using the M3 as it is small and unobtrusive, but struggle a bit with it not having an integrated lightmeter. I have been hankering after a digital M3 for a while. Would it make sense to swap my D3 for an M8? I know the high ISO performance on the D3 is better, but what about the IQ on the M8? How does it compare? Would my old Leica lenses do justice to the M8 or will I have to invest in newer ones to get the full potential? Its a loaded question, prone to what I will call "brand bias". The best way I can answer is to say that since I have my M8, my Canon 5D, which produces excellent images, has not been used other than (i) when I need to go very long and (ii) when autofocus and/or the easy flash integration is needed (as in shooting a birthday party with two-year-olds running around in a room; I'm just not good enough (fast enough) with manual focus to use the M8 there). For travel, I have completely abandoned the SLR. Perhaps the D3 is such a quantum leap in technology that giving up the D3 in favor of the M8 would be a completely different proposition. But I doubt it if what you want,as you say, is a "walkaround" camera. For that the M8 is superb. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted January 17, 2008 Share #7 Posted January 17, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) Well all your questions can only be answered by you and the use of your older lenses on a M8. Some on this forum fine the older lenses, yes even the LTM lenses, better then there newer lenses for certain types of photography. That is not to say the newer lenses aren't as good or aren't better. It's all subjective. All your present lenses will work without a problem on the M8, only exception would be the Summicron 50 f/2 "IF" it is a "Dual Range" model. "IF" it is the standard model/type of any vintage it will work fine. I have an Elmar 50 f/3.5 and Summitar 50 with my IIIf and an Elmarit 90 f/2.8, an Elmar 135 /f4 and a Summicron 50 f/2 with my M3. I presume these lenses will fit (with an adaptor for the LTM lenses) on the M8, but how will they fare quality wise? After all there is a 50 year gap between them? I do use old MF Nikkor lenses with my D3, but am always aware that the newer coated lenses (eg 24-70 f/2.8) are just a bit better. Will I have the same experience with the M8? Do I need to get new lenses to get the best out of the M8? Perhaps I am better off just using my M3 as a wonderful 'mature' image maker for when I want to get back to basics and then using the Nikon stuff for when I want high tech and long lenses? Incidentally I did not think that anyone would actually do a swap. I would have to sell the one to buy the other. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
j. borger Posted January 17, 2008 Share #8 Posted January 17, 2008 OId lenses perform extremely well with the M8 ..... My 50 summicron rigid (1957) and 35 summaron/3,5 (LTM)(1950) are among my favourites. I tried a summmitar with the m8 too and it also performed very well. Of course these older lenses draw different than the new lenses .... but i would not think about it in terms of good and bad. If you shoot B&W .. these older lenses might even be preferably to the newer ones. If you like your old lenses with film there is no reason to assume they will perform less with the M8 ... on the contrary ........ they also keep their character on the M8! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tummydoc Posted January 17, 2008 Share #9 Posted January 17, 2008 I have a Nikon D3 which I bought to complement my D300 when shooting wildlife. In practice the 1.5x effect of the D300 is better suited to shooting wildlfe as it extends the range of my 200-400 lens. I have been using the D3 for general and landscape photography and love the high ISO levels, but find it a bit large and also noisy to use as a walkaround camera. I also have an M3 and a IIIf with a selection of older Leica lenses. I love using the M3 as it is small and unobtrusive, but struggle a bit with it not having an integrated lightmeter. I have been hankering after a digital M3 for a while. Would it make sense to swap my D3 for an M8? I know the high ISO performance on the D3 is better, but what about the IQ on the M8? How does it compare? Would my old Leica lenses do justice to the M8 or will I have to invest in newer ones to get the full potential? I have an M8 and a D200. No plans to buy a D300, the extra couple MP and the rest of the frills and chills aren't important to my usage. I wouldn't even think of dropping $5K on a D3 when a mint 1DS-II is selling for about $4.5K. For what the D3 costs I would've expected it to at least have as much native resolution as the outgoing Canon flagship. So as you can see I'm not a fan of the D3, even though I understand that as a loyal Nikonian I should be down on my hands and knees thanking them for finally delivering a full-frame body. That said, realise that an M8 requires extraordinary brand loyalty, a calm and forgiving nature, and a jolly good ability to suspend sense and logic. After nearly a year and a half and numerous firmware patches, the AWB is still quite undependable--not as most digitals, but in a random and excessive fashion. And to counter-act the weak IR filtration, all lenses new or old require the placement of an additional IR filter in front of each. Plus, those wider than 35mm must be coded to activate in-camera firmware correction for the greenish corners caused by those filters, or one must process those files in an additional step with 3rd-party software. And that said, the M8 is a rather fine picture-making machine despite all, and the uniqueness of its ergonomics is undeniable. If you can make do with the D300 in place of where you currently use the D3, then an M8 might be an interesting purchase. It will not ever replace a D3 however, as these are two vastly different tools. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted January 17, 2008 Share #10 Posted January 17, 2008 Well I bought a 5D for some jobs that i needed to do outside the M8 walls and it's okay but not very impressed and never was with one before 2nd one i have bought . So would love to have the D3 instead since i think it would be better but I can't get down to only one M8, I just need to two of them as more as a second camera to shoot plus ultimately the same backup camera. The M8 has much nicer files than any of them that I have seen or used but it comes with a price. You need to understand it and know how to work around it also. But if image is the most important part than the M8 files do deliver that in spades. But there is no free ride either , you need to work it. The 5D for me is lazy photography, just push and not think. The M8 makes me think more and for a Pro that is essential IMHO. To me I just put more effort into shooting with the M8 for others that maybe different but I like the extra work so I'm pretty happy overall with the M8 and see no need to change out for something else at this time until a M9 comes or maybe the R10. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted January 17, 2008 Share #11 Posted January 17, 2008 Let me put it this way. I have an M8 and don't have a D3 (I do have a Canon 5D). I would not swap the Leica for the Nikon. I prefer rangefinder cameras, but that's just me and the type of phographs I take. You may be different. Of course since you've used rangefinders in the past the 'will I take to a rangefinder' question shouldn't arise. Image quality from the M8 is exceptional. I am more than happy producing A2 prints from the images the camera produces. Old lenses can work really well, I have a couple of A2 sized prints from a Pre-ASPH 35mm Summilux that I think anyone would be happy with - from a technical point of view of course <grin>. As I mentioned earlier I have a Canon 5D, it's sat unused since I bought the M8 about 12 months ago. Haven't regretted the puchase for a second. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 17, 2008 Share #12 Posted January 17, 2008 I like to present the other side: I really am a RF person and have even used the Visoflex on Safari. But in the end I decided to get a DMR as well for the long end..SLR's and RF's complement one another since time immemorial. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografr Posted January 17, 2008 Share #13 Posted January 17, 2008 The only similarity between the D3 and M8 is that they are both digital cameras. Trying to compare them just doesn't work. The M8 is not, and never will be, a wildlife camera. I know, some people have made great wildlife images with them on safari, etc., but unless you want to go through visoflex or spotting scope/heavy duty tripod regimine, the lenses just aren't long enough. It is, however, a wonderful landscape camera and there is ample evidence of that in the photo forum. It is also an excellent travel camera since you can carry a fairly small, lightweight kit with everything you need--especially when comparing it to a D3 system. I shoot professionally, so have to maintain a good DSLR system for certain kinds of assignments. If that were not the case, I'd shoot with the M8 exclusively. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesphoto99 Posted January 17, 2008 Share #14 Posted January 17, 2008 It all depends on the type of photography you do. You are deficient lens wise with the leica on the wide side so something to consider. And unlike the Nikon its rare to find rentals and a bottom of the line Leica lens will cost about the same as a Nikon flagship zoom. Can you exist with just your M3 ( considering your 50 will be a 67)? Then get an M8. Otherwise hang onto the Nikon. Oh just read you also have a D300. I have a D200 and it compliments my M8 well. Also dont forget those excellent bargain lenses by C/V an Zeiss. But give yourself at least 3 months of frustration with filters, bayonet swapping, coding, possible trip for the body back to Solms and so on. All part of the M8 experience. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpStart Posted January 17, 2008 Share #15 Posted January 17, 2008 In practice the 1.5x effect of the D300 is better suited to shooting wildlfe as it extends the range of my 200-400 lens. First, it doesn't increase the length of the lens, nor does it make the critter you are shooting larger. It simply crops the image for you. People confuse this all the time. If I had the money, and it appears you do, I would keep the D3 and if you really want, I would swap the D300 with some cash for an M8 for your walk around photography. This is what I am doing. I also have an D300, and I am keeping that as a backup to the D3 when I shoot wildlife. Good luck DBK Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vieri Posted January 17, 2008 Share #16 Posted January 17, 2008 Send me your D3, I will send you one of my M8s... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theodor Heinrichsohn Posted January 17, 2008 Share #17 Posted January 17, 2008 I like to present the other side: I really am a RF person and have even used the Visoflex on Safari. But in the end I decided to get a DMR as well for the long end..SLR's and RF's complement one another since time immemorial. Frankly, I don't quite understand the discussion. The M8 and for that matter all RF cameras are a different breed than the D3 and all other SLR types, digital, autofocus or not, etc. There are subjects that can be better dealt with using a M8 and subjects that are better captured with a D3. I recently sold my Canon 5D and several Canon lenses, although I could use some of my Leica R glass on the D5 and purchased the D3, the 14-24, the 24-70 and the 70-200 as well as the suitable tele extender. In other words, I would never exchange my M8 for a D3 or vice versa, at least from what I have seen from first experiments with the D3. Bye the way, the results with old Nikkor lenses such as the 13mm, the Noct Nikkor 1.2 on the D3 remind me in their own way of the results I have had with the M8 and pre WW II lenses such as the Hektors, the Elmars, the Summitar and so on and also the Mandler designed glass. Different way of drawing which one subjectively likes or not, depending on the effect one wants to achieve and/or the individual perception of reality. The older lenses generally draw pictures with less contrast and possibly more "body". Newer lenses generally result in greater clarity, higher contrast and clinical sharpness. The last consideration is weight. My Leica M8 outfit is easy to carry and does not strain my back. The D3 outfit brushes the limits of my 77 year old physique! Teddy Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptomsu Posted January 17, 2008 Share #18 Posted January 17, 2008 I would never switch my M8 for a D3 and vice versa the D3 (which I ordered) for a M8. These are 2 complementary systems. The question could be switch a R9/DMR against a D3, but otherwise I would try to own both - M8 and D3. A D300 is a crop camera, I do not like crop and would never go back to this if I had the choice. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonWeston Posted January 17, 2008 Share #19 Posted January 17, 2008 Agree with Peter completely... it is sort of like saying I want to swap my Posrche Cayman for a Rolls Royce. I went the other way though, bought the D300 to augment the M8 in areas. I have only a brief window when I need a high ISO camera personally and do not want to carry the weight of a D2-3 body any longer. For my style of useage of cameras the D300 and M8 pair off better, but each to their own.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom0511 Posted January 17, 2008 Share #20 Posted January 17, 2008 Kennekam, I would be interested how often you use the d3 and how often the d300 and in which regards you see the d3 ahead of the d300. I have a d300 besides my M8 and struggle with myself weather I should add the d3 or not. (reasons for D3 where to use the 85 and 28/1.4 in FX and high ISO...however d300 High iso doesnt look bad at all) Regarding youe question: IMO the M8 is great up to ISO 640 in color and 1250 in b&w, but ahead not so good. File quality With those ISO is great. SImplicity of the M8 is great too. For moving subjects I see an AF-camera as the better tool. The M8 and D300 complement very well IMO. What you give up if you sell the D3 is probably the great high ISO. I dont know what you shoot mainly. If it was indoor sports I would rather keep the D3. If its street, people, landscape I would probably rahter go the d300+m8 way. cheers, Tom Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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