Darkening LCD in Cool / Cold Weather

[KenTanaka]

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This is a problem I first reported with my black M11-P in December, 2023.  Here it is again, now on my new M-EV1.  
In brief, after an hour or so in cool / cold weather the LCD screen begins to dramatically darken FROM THE CENTER.  It finally reaches a point where only the edge-most perimeter remains normally bright.  The EVF is unaffected.  It seems temperature-related.

I have not observed this with my Q3, my Q3 43, my SL3, or my M11-P Safari (although I might not yet have taken the Safari into cool weather).  Nor have observed this with ANY other brand of camera.

Certainly I am not alone with this problem.  (Or am I the only one who takes cameras out into the cold weather? 😉)

 

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[adan]

Leica lists the operating temperature range of the M-EV1 as 0°C to +40°C. I.E. not in temperatures below freezing.

https://leica-camera.com/en-US/photography/cameras/m/m-ev1-black/technical-specification?srsltid=AfmBOoqFg0N-ZhbMfUpviH1ZiYKm4F0VRhZ_5-YYaS42Q7_KJawjnlh0

Now, an operating electronic device will generate its own internal heat to some extent (all those flowing electrons, just like a "hot" Edison tungsten lightbulb 💡 )

That will have the most effect on the inside-the-casing, protected-from-the-elements EVF. But as to a large-surface external screen "hanging out there in the breeze," so to speak.......?

Bottom line - If Leica says not below freezing, and you use the camera in temperatures below that, you are acting as an "unpaid test pilot."

Last time I used a digital M in c-o-l-d (about -10-12°C) conditions was 2014 or so (M9 - smaller LCD surface area).

I did not have problems that I recall - BUT - I was carrying the cameras in ready-shooting-position, with the backs (i.e. the LCDs) against my chest (or against my face). A bit less exposed to "wind chill" effects, and probably receiving some radiative body heat as well. And in constant use, with few breaks for the cameras to cool down on their own. I was also using the RF, with no chimping, so I didn't really notice how the LCDs were behaving anyway.

 

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[KenTanaka]

C'mon, I'm talking 45-50 deg F.  Not -40F.  

None of my MANY other cameras exhibit such a problem. This is NOT user-error.  This is engineering error.

 

[adan]

Who mentioned -40F? 🤪 

You didn't mention any specific temperature in your first post, but most of the places I've lived, "cold" = near or below freezing (+32 F). The only place 50°F was considered "cold" was the Caribbean. 😁

[jaapv]

Your MANY other cameras don’t have an ultra-compact, all-metal body without plastic or rubber covering it, that cools down in no time when exposed to the cold. If your camera does this within its operating range you should claim under guarantee, if under zero ( C )  it is what it is. And as Andy mentions wind chill by evaporation can make quite a difference too. 

[EddieCheddar]

Hey now. 
I was in San Francisco last week walking around with my M-EV1 during the day and this exact thing happened to me, too!  It was probably 60 degrees out or so.  Freaked me out, but I found a similar post about this and calmed down.  Screen was fine an hour later and has been ever since. 

I was wearing a “puffy” lightweight jacket and a short camera strap with camera resting on the jacket on my chest. The previous post I read on this issue mentioned the “static” from the jacket along with the cold being the issue.  Perhaps?  I don’t know.

This has never happened on any other camera that I’ve owned.   

 

Here’s the previous link I found about this issue.
 

 

Edited December 3 by EddieCheddar

[jaapv]

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One thing that sets the M 11 apart from other cameras is the location of the sensor close to the back. Other cameras have more space. And the camera is all metal. This means that the CPU which is the main heat generating component in the camera is not located  close to the LCD and is positioned to dissipate its heat to the body as all M cameras have heat management problems at very high ambient temperatures.  So the CPU will heat the LCD less than other cameras.  Still, to mitigate the freezing of the LCD do  not expose the camera to the cold when it is not running and protect it when not in use   
individual use and carrying habit makes a difference  The 2023 thread was started by the same member  

 

Note that the cold LCD reports began with the M10 which shrunk the body and moved the motherboard and CPU away from the back of the .sensor to the side  

Do be aware that a camera that drops below zero F can suffer LCD damage. 

However if the camera does this when within its operating temperature range (keeping wind chill in mind) do contact Leica with a warranty claim.

https://focuslcds.com/lcd-resources/temperature-consideration-for-displays/

 

[nussbusch]

Have the same problem with my EV1. I dont remember to see this in my M11M or any other Canon body of which I own/owned many ...

[Robert Ardinger]

13 hours ago, jaapv said:

wind chill by evaporation can make quite a difference too

Wind chill is what living objects (like us humans) feel on our skin. (i.e. temperature 40 degrees F/"feels like" 30 degrees F).  A camera really cannot get colder than the ambient temperature (vulcanite doesn't sweat ). Wind could allow it to get down to the ambient temperature faster but would not drop it below.  It could be that more rapid cooling of the camera with wind would accelerate the change in the LCD and perhaps that might cause a more noticeable change than what might be seen if the camera were to cool more slowly.

[jaapv]

Wind chill on inanimate objects works by evaporation of moisture that has previously settled on the surface. 

[Robert Ardinger]

5 hours ago, jaapv said:

Wind chill on inanimate objects works by evaporation of moisture that has previously settled on the surface. 

Yes it does, (see desert water bags "Saturate before using" and my (joking) comment "vulcanite doesn't sweat) but the rate or amount of evaporative cooling does depend factors such as the humidity and the differences in temperature between the air and the object.  It can be accelerated with wind (driving a car with a water bag on the bumper through a hot desert, blower fan in a home evaporator. cooling unit) but the OP's camera looked to be quite dry and it would be doubtful that there was any evaporative cooling going on (especially in cooler air temperatures).  If the (dry looking) camera cooled as the OP was using it, the camera would not be colder than the ambient temp.  

I agree with the OP that the darkening of the screen should not be an expected occurrence just because it is used in what appears to be fairly mild, cool/cold conditions.  

If the darkening is due soley to the construction of the M10/11 digital cameras being such that there is very little insulating material around the LCD and/or the heat source of the processor not being close to the LCD, then this could be tested with a camera with a movable LCD and moving the screen up/around so than both sides of the screen are exposed to the air temp.  If that LCD was cooled in the 45/50 degree F air temperature mentioned by the OP and that cooling to that temperature would darken the screen then the exposed LCD should darken. 

If it simply something unique to M10/11 cameras and not something that effects picture quality then it should at least be listed as a "feature" of the cameras and have a line or two in the instruction book warning of the occurrence and how, if desired, to mitigate it.

[jaapv]

It is listed. “ operating temperature between 0 and 40 degrees”. Other cameras have similar specifications. The things you mention allow a camera to be used outside its envelope not very relevant technically. The use of the camera is of more interest. Keeping it covered reduces dissipation, frequent shots create internal heat. From the fact that this is the second camera that the Op has this problem with suggests to me that an M10 or 11 might not be optimal for his use. 

The problem is certainly not limited to Leica; This is what Duck AI search found:

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The last sentence is meaningless; as there is nothing wrong with the camera, there is little to be done except offer advice on use. 

However, as I said twice before, if the camera shows the issue within its use envelope, a consultation with Leica or the dealer is the way to go. 
 

A pro with a similar complaint on a Nikon forum

Slightly different cold problems in a Canon forum

and here is a Sony

The Internet is full of these posts, but it is true that a Leica M 10 or 11 will cool faster than a rubber-insulated camera, or one with a layout that sluices heat to the LCD; one minute thinking will generate that wisdom. 

Of course people will act differently  When the temperature drops below zero  ©, one person will not leave the house and start photographing the Christmas tree, the next will rush out and shoot an SD card full of snowy photos and retreat to the open fire within the hour, the third will wrap up and put the camera under his coat or in a padded bag and go for a long walk stopping frequently for interesting shots, and one will go on a day hike with his camera on his shoulder ready for the occasional interesting shot.
 Only the last photographer will get LCD problems