My Leica IIIC, marked “F-05100,” was used by the Croatian Air Force. Is it authentic? Where can I find more information?

[JustinYu]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I have a Leica IIIC with red curtain. Featuring the special engraving “F-05100” on its top plate.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Based on my knowledge, this is a Leica camera belonging to air force, and the seller informed me it belong to the “Croatian Air Force.” Considering that Croatia  has strong connection to German Nazi during WWII, this seems entirely plausible.

I don't believe it's fake, because fraudsters would easily choose to fake the popular Luftwaffe IIIC rather than an extremely rare type.

I verified its serial number, which was indeed produced during wartime, and the red curtain is further evidence of its wartime production. However, I've found no information available. I haven't encountered any other Leica IIIC with the engraving “F-05100” . Therefore, I am asking assistance here. Could you help me determine the historical background and value of this camera? Alternatively, could you provide me with channels to obtain its official documentation? Should I contact Leica directly?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[nitroplait]

If you send the serial number to info@leica-camera.com they can normally tell you to where the camera was originally delivered.

[Jul]

According to:
https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/a-leica-iiic-croatian-military-rangefinder-camera-9a-c-fd048cfabc?srsltid=AfmBOoqEJAMqlcz_r3YDKkMS4PGWKwjey3NHAYLmpyhvPLx7M0VEVtAI

The shutter is working but slow speeds are sticking.

"Notes: This camera was delivered to Zagreb, Coratia in to1940 and has a military engraving of 'F-05100' to the top plate, possiably for the Air Force"

All typos are from the quoted text. Flint auctions April 16, 2025 

Edited December 1 by Jul
Remove useless space

[JustinYu]

3 hours ago, nitroplait said:

If you send the serial number to info@leica-camera.com they can normally tell you to where the camera was originally delivered.

Thanks a lot, nitroplait. I just sent my request to them and waiting for the reply.

[JustinYu]

3 hours ago, Jul said:

According to:
https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/a-leica-iiic-croatian-military-rangefinder-camera-9a-c-fd048cfabc?srsltid=AfmBOoqEJAMqlcz_r3YDKkMS4PGWKwjey3NHAYLmpyhvPLx7M0VEVtAI

The shutter is working but slow speeds are sticking.

"Notes: This camera was delivered to Zagreb, Coratia in to1940 and has a military engraving of 'F-05100' to the top plate, possiably for the Air Force"

All typos are from the quoted text. Flint auctions April 16, 2025 

Ha ha, yes, I am the buyer. It's true that flintsauction said the camera was delivered to Croatia at the 1940, it is the right time according to WWII. but I still haven't received official documents. I'm currently trying to contact Leica and see if I can get something.

[Dr Monochrom]

Hi @JustinYu,

I am curious about their answer.

James L. Lager’s inspection of delivery ledgers indicated that the Leica IIIc and Leica IIId in the serial number range from 360001 through 390000 were shipped to at least thirty countries outside of Germany between 1940 and 1944. The closest country to (the Independent State of) Croatia where Leica IIIc and IIId cameras were shipped in those days would be Yugoslavia. 

To be honest with you, I have never seen a camera with such engraving. Nor have I ever come across a Leica camera associated with Croatian military.

 

References:

(2004). WHERE DID THEY GO? Leica lllc-llld Deliveries 1940-1944. Viewfinder, 37(1), 26-28.

I have many IIIc and IIIcK cameras listed here: https://www.summichronica.com/leica-iiic

 

[JustinYu]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

39 minutes ago, Dr Monochrom said:

Hi @JustinYu,

I am curious about their answer.

James L. Lager’s inspection of delivery ledgers indicated that the Leica IIIc and Leica IIId in the serial number range from 360001 through 390000 were shipped to at least thirty countries outside of Germany between 1940 and 1944. The closest country to (the Independent State of) Croatia where Leica IIIc and IIId cameras were shipped in those days would be Yugoslavia. 

To be honest with you, I have never seen a camera with such engraving. Nor have I ever come across a Leica camera associated with Croatian military.

 

References:

(2004). WHERE DID THEY GO? Leica lllc-llld Deliveries 1940-1944. Viewfinder, 37(1), 26-28.

I have many IIIc and IIIcK cameras listed here: https://www.summichronica.com/leica-iiic

 

Dear Dr. Monochrom, thank you for help. It really does take a professional to handle professional matters. I'll thoroughly review this link.

Yes, this is the first time I've seen this engraving too. After online research, I haven't found a second one like this—which makes it all the more intriguing! The seller claims this camera was delivered to Zagreb, Croatia in 1941. Zagreb was indeed the capital of the Independent State of Croatia (NDH). The Independent State of Croatia (NDH) was a puppet regime of the fascist powers. Viewed this way, it makes sense both politically and in terms of historical context.

Still, we must wait Leica's official response. If this camera truly delivered in Zagreb at the correct time, it could unveil some unknown chapters of Leica's history!

 

 

[NigelG]

Quoting from Wiki (my highlight) re the early operations of the ZNDH in 1941…might be of interest?

“However it was soon established that the vintage biplane Breguet 19 and Potez 25 aircraft were ideally suited for missions against Partisan troop concentrations. Although they were outdated and certainly their use would be out of the question on any other front, their performance and armament made them very dangerous for an ill-armed enemy. The Partisans were scattered in villages, forests and mountains and their positions could only be detected by a slow moving aircraft. Visual reconnaissance missions using hand-held cameras were also flown. Aerial reconnaissance supplied the army with vital data about Partisan movements and positions and about the situation in Partisan territory in general.”

Edited December 2 by NigelG

[JustinYu]

11 hours ago, Dr Monochrom said:

Hi @JustinYu,

I am curious about their answer.

James L. Lager’s inspection of delivery ledgers indicated that the Leica IIIc and Leica IIId in the serial number range from 360001 through 390000 were shipped to at least thirty countries outside of Germany between 1940 and 1944. The closest country to (the Independent State of) Croatia where Leica IIIc and IIId cameras were shipped in those days would be Yugoslavia. 

To be honest with you, I have never seen a camera with such engraving. Nor have I ever come across a Leica camera associated with Croatian military.

 

References:

(2004). WHERE DID THEY GO? Leica lllc-llld Deliveries 1940-1944. Viewfinder, 37(1), 26-28.

I have many IIIc and IIIcK cameras listed here: https://www.summichronica.com/leica-iiic

 

I was wondering, what was the purpose of the iiic you mentioned being sent to Yugoslavia? If it was also for military use, then wouldn't it be reasonable for this iiic to be sent to neighboring Croatia for military purposes?

[luigi bertolotti]

An interesting piece of history, if original... Croatia , from April  1941, was officialy a kingdom under Nazi-Fascist protection (the king being Tomislaw II, actually Italian Aimone of Savoia, who disliked the role, accepting it only after strong pressures... and never went there) : in this context, no strange that Germany had provided some Leicas in that "friend" Country... their armed forces were led by the famed "Ustashias" and this was probably the destination of those cameras.  

Edited December 2 by luigi bertolotti

[Dr Monochrom]

11 hours ago, JustinYu said:

I was wondering, what was the purpose of the iiic you mentioned being sent to Yugoslavia? If it was also for military use, then wouldn't it be reasonable for this iiic to be sent to neighboring Croatia for military purposes?

Hi. 

The reason for their delivery to Yugoslavia might be found in the shipping records. I suspect that the Leica IIIc and Leica IIId cameras in question could have been shipped to Yugoslavia after the "Unternehmen 25" ended on April 18, 1941, that is, after the Axis powers occupied the country.

This makes me wonder when the first camera was delivered to Yugoslavia...

I believe we may never know the definitive answer to the question of "Why Yugoslavia and not the Independent State of Croatia?"

More research is certainly needed.

[JustinYu]

10 hours ago, Dr Monochrom said:

你好。 

这些相机运往南斯拉夫的原因或许可以从运输记录中找到。我怀疑，这些徕卡IIIc和徕卡IIId相机可能是在1941年4月18日“ Unternehmen 25 ”项目结束后，也就是轴心国占领南斯拉夫之后，被运往该国的。

这让我不禁想知道第一台相机是什么时候送到南斯拉夫的……

我认为我们可能永远无法得知“为什么是南斯拉夫而不是克罗地亚独立国？”这个问题的最终答案。

当然，还需要进行更多研究。

Great news—Leica has officially confirmed: “The Leica IIIc chrome SNr. #363535 was shipped to ‘Zagreb’ on September 24th, 1940.”

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[JustinYu]

18 hours ago, luigi bertolotti said:

An interesting piece of history, if original... Croatia , from April  1941, was officialy a kingdom under Nazi-Fascist protection (the king being Tomislaw II, actually Italian Aimone of Savoia, who disliked the role, accepting it only after strong pressures... and never went there) : in this context, no strange that Germany had provided some Leicas in that "friend" Country... their armed forces were led by the famed "Ustashias" and this was probably the destination of those cameras.  

yes, plausible. 

[luigi bertolotti]

12 hours ago, Dr Monochrom said:

Hi. 

The reason for their delivery to Yugoslavia might be found in the shipping records. I suspect that the Leica IIIc and Leica IIId cameras in question could have been shipped to Yugoslavia after the "Unternehmen 25" ended on April 18, 1941, that is, after the Axis powers occupied the country.

This makes me wonder when the first camera was delivered to Yugoslavia...

I believe we may never know the definitive answer to the question of "Why Yugoslavia and not the Independent State of Croatia?"

More research is certainly needed.

A complicate and intriguing plot, indeed... Leica statement (surely trustable) says that delivery to Zagreb was before the Unternehmen 25... in a time when War, in those lands, hadn't yet started... and Croatia was a semi-indipendent part of Yugoslavia ("Banovine of Croatia")...  Axis forces were surely active over there... Agents and similar people, trying surely to search for local supporters in sight of the possible invasion (Ante Pavelic(*) was already a strong Nazi supporter)...  was this Leica delivered to some of those local agents ? What's the meaning of that odd engraving, supposed it's original ? Doesn't look a typical Leitz font... but who knows... military engravings were often made by recipients... maybe the camera was later given to some military.. or even stolen, captured by Croatian partisan and identificated with the engraving ? Can be matter of a war-spy story 😉, and anyway would be very interesting to decipher that "F - 05100" : experts on military engravings, welcome... 

(*) Pavelic was in exile - Austria and Italy, and he was also, in 1939-40, next to my town - Brescia - where a military training camp was set up to train pro-axis Croatian soldiers.

Edited December 3 by luigi bertolotti

[nitroplait]

Institutional cameras often had inventory numbers engraved upon receipt.

Without knowing to what institution it was delivered it is near impossible to decipher any meaning.

There is also the possibility that a later owner made the engraving.

[beoon]

Here is some information from the Leica Historica 30th Anniversary book "Screwmount Cameras with Military Engravings" by Luigi Cane and Jim Lager (2005)

"Leica IIIb No 363076 was delivered on 19th June 1940 to Luftwaffe Bln"

"Leica IIIb No 363576 was delivered on 11th September 1940 to Luftwaffe Bln"

Your camera No 363535 falls between the above serial No's which were assigned to Luftwaffe Bln.

The book also states

"Engravings which were carried out at the Leitz factory are, as per the current state of knowledge"

"Luftwaffen-Eigentum" / "FI.-No 38079"

"W.H."

"M"

[dg4mgr]

vor 14 Minuten schrieb beoon:

"Luftwaffen-Eigentum" / "FI.-No 38079"

Note that the Fl.-No 38079 is the same on all the Luftwaffe Leicas, as the number identifies it as a camera, and is like a military stock number and not a serial number or inventory number. Similarly, Fl.-No 23883 was used for a pilot watch (Fliegeruhr)   

[Dr Monochrom]

36 minutes ago, dg4mgr said:

Note that the Fl.-No 38079 is the same on all the Luftwaffe Leicas, as the number identifies it as a camera, and is like a military stock number and not a serial number or inventory number. Similarly, Fl.-No 23883 was used for a pilot watch (Fliegeruhr)   

Correct. Small addition:

According to James L. Lager, the designation "Fl.№38078" referred to the "flieger" number that identified the engraved object as a 35mm hand camera produced by Ernst Leitz Wetzlar. This information, according to Ms. Lager, came from Luftwaffe documents dated 1940, which assigned specific identification numbers to various items in their equipment inventory (I presume, just like the pilot watch in your example). It's known that sometime between 1939 and 1940, the number "Fl.№38078" was updated to "Fl.№38079".

References: Lager, J. L. (2025). Leica: An Illustrated History - Volume 1 - Cameras - Signed Deluxe Limited Edition. Gallery 270 LLC.

[Dr Monochrom]

7 hours ago, luigi bertolotti said:

A complicate and intriguing plot, indeed... Leica statement (surely trustable) says that delivery to Zagreb was before the Unternehmen 25... in a time when War, in those lands, hadn't yet started... and Croatia was a semi-indipendent part of Yugoslavia ("Banovine of Croatia")...  Axis forces were surely active over there... Agents and similar people, trying surely to search for local supporters in sight of the possible invasion (Ante Pavelic(*) was already a strong Nazi supporter)...  was this Leica delivered to some of those local agents ? What's the meaning of that odd engraving, supposed it's original ? Doesn't look a typical Leitz font... but who knows... military engravings were often made by recipients... maybe the camera was later given to some military.. or even stolen, captured by Croatian partisan and identificated with the engraving ? Can be matter of a war-spy story 😉, and anyway would be very interesting to decipher that "F - 05100" : experts on military engravings, welcome... 

(*) Pavelic was in exile - Austria and Italy, and he was also, in 1939-40, next to my town - Brescia - where a military training camp was set up to train pro-axis Croatian soldiers.

Very intriguing indeed. Why would a camera be exported to an "unfriendly state", unless Axis powers had some friends there, like you mentioned? 

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear